Traveling with out insurance?

[2501]

Libertarian, you do not need commas when 'or' is used or for that matter when 'and' is used. <The sentance is bad english> That is very common in New York. It may be vaugue just so it's in there but is also confusing. It is most cetainly customary to list different things using commas. The listed items are related in that they are all things that are not motor vehicles. Vehicles other than for hire are not motor vehicles is my read on that but I can barley spell and write much less correct others writting

[2501]

Libertarian, I just looked at the code with my decoding glasses on...
[EL, Article 36-A NEW YORK MOTOR VEHICLE THEFT AND INSURANCE FRAUD PREVENTION DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM Sec. 846 -k (6) - Definitions
6. "Motor Vehicle" shall be defined as in section one hundred twenty-five of the vehicle and traffic law, except that it shall also include trailers, semi-trailers and tractors other than tractors used exclusively for agricultural purposes, and shall exclude fire and police vehicles, farm equipment, including self-propelled machines used exclusively in growing, harvesting or handling farm produce, tractors used exclusively for agricultural purposes, or for snow plowing other than for hire, and self-propelled caterpillar or crawler-type equipment while being operated on the contract site. 2000, chgd. by chap. 57 (T), eff. 5/15/2000, expires 7/1/2003.]
...this must be the one you meant. Hear it (sort of) clearly states the snow plowing other than for hire is excluded from the definition for MOTOR VEHICLE.

the [consolidated unannotated code]
reference only! (this code may be copyrighted and/ or may be for attorney use only) [[V&T-Art. 1 sec. 113, sec. 121(e), sec. 152, sec. 159] NEW YORK] (I wonder what the annotated says?)

in New York law libraries there is no official text. In New York law libraries the unofficial West publishing copyrighted books "serve" as the official text.

[chapka]

Originally Posted by dadmoonbunny

First, I see that you have posted the statute on "motor vehicles" when,as I understand it, vehicle being a legal term meaning a conveyance is the term needing interpretation. Motor Vehicle is another term, seemingly seperate.

Motor vehicle is the term used in the statute requiring vehicle registration. Where is "vehicle" used separately in the New York code in a way that would be relevant to this discussion?

Second, I understand through prior reading that the Supreme Court has upheld the right to travel is NOT something we need a license to do.

That's correct. However, that doesn't mean you have the right to travel by car, any more than the fact that you have a right to free speech means you're allowed to commit fraud or infringe a copyright, or the fact that you have a right to bear arms means you can build nuclear weapons in your basement. Reasonable regulation is always allowed as long as it doesn't interfere with the basic exercise of the right.

Thirdly, if I have the MSO to a automobile, or motorcycle or even my tractor, then it means that the state does not own it, it has never been registerd with the state for taxation purposes and cannot and is not taxable. A reading of the industry standard(?) MSO shows this by logic and inference both.

You're making one leap too many here. It may well show that you own it, meaning that the state doesn't own it. The MSO doesn't show that it's never been registered with the state (unless the state requires you to surrender it when you register). But that doesn't mean it's not taxable.

Regardless, this is a red herring. The statute doesn't require registration of vehicles the state owns; it requires registration (at least in New York) of vehicles operated on the public roads. Don't like it? Then you're not required to register your car. As long as you only drive it on private property.

I have, in my travels seen with my own eyes, a number of automobiles , motorcycles and other machinery operated upon public roads without tags, with "NOT FOR HIRE" perinted on the rear. Never seen one hassled by BB. How is this possible?

It's possible because the cops probably think they have better things to do. I know a lot of waitresses who don't report their tips, too. Doesn't mean that that income isn't taxable. Just means nobody's bothered to enforce that particular law. That's the way the world works.

nope, nope, nope. ive seen a couple people travelling around without tags in georgia also and the area where ive seen them, the cops pull over EVERYBODY for ANYTHING. the not for hire is the key.

[fulltitle]

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

vehicle - "a medium through which a drug or medicine is administered," 1615 in the sense of "any means of conveying or transmitting," from Fr. véhicule, from L. vehiculum "means of transport, a vehicle," from vehere "to carry," from PIE *wegh- "to go, transport in a vehicle" (cf. O.E. wegan "to carry;" O.N. vegr, O.H.G. weg "way;" M.Du. wagen "wagon;" see wagon). Sense of "cart or other conveyance" first recorded 1656.

Wagon [think > VEY-gon].

{Motor vehicle..} Every vehicle operated or driven upon a public
highway which is propelled by any power other than muscular power,
except >>

{THE FOLLOWING ARE EXCEPTIONS}
(a) electrically-driven mobility assistance devices operated or driven by a person with a disability,
(b) vehicles which run only upon rails or tracks,
(c) snowmobiles as defined in article forty-seven of this chapter, and
(d) all terrain vehicles as defined in article forty-eight-B of this chapter.

{It continues. Are any of the following for hire and 'motorized'?}

For the purposes of title four, the term motor vehicle shall exclude fire and police vehicles other than ambulances. For the purposes of titles four and five the term motor vehicles shall exclude

{could any of the following be involved in making money on the public highways? is there an exception below having anything at all to do with the prospect of making money on the common ways?}

> farm type tractors and all terrain type vehicles used exclusively for agricultural purposes, or for snow plowing, other than for hire
>farm equipment, including self-propelled machines used exclusively in growing, harvesting or handling farm produce, and self-propelled caterpillar or crawler-type equipment while being operated on the contract site.

Conveyance - A written instrument, such as a deed or lease, that transfers some ownership interest in real property from one person to another.

Commercial paper, no?

Conveyance - n. Law, act or document by which title to property is transferred. conveyancing, n. conveyancer, n. lawyer dealing in such business.

Commercial paper, no?

"Conveyance" includes a vehicle and any other device employed to transport a person or persons or goods from place to place but does not include any such vehicle or device if operated only within the premises of a person.

Is a vehicle the instrument or the machine itself?

Conveyable - (Adj.) legally transferable to the ownership of another; "negotiable bonds"

Is conveyable synomymous with negotiable?

em·ploy Pronunciation (m-ploi)
tr.v. em·ployed, em·ploy·ing, em·ploys
1.
a. To engage the services of; put to work: agreed to employ the job applicant.
b. To provide with gainful work: factories that employ thousands.
2. To put to use or service....

Employ - Engage or hire for work

Is a conveyance a vehicle engaged or hired for work?

"Motorized Conveyance" means a conveyance propelled or driven other than bymuscular, gravitational or wind power.

Is a motorized conveyance a type of vehicle [publicly] 'engaged for hire or work'?

[Remeber, statutes have only cognizance of that which they have cognizance of.]

[2501]

It is well established that while exercising your right to travel you may choose to do so in any method whatsoever like a non-commercial road machine (as long as you own it). And we sovereigns do not drive on the road we travel upon our right of way! And we can give/ declare ourselves with the right to "drive"/ travel. A declaration that goes unrebutted stands as true! So declare yourself with the right to "drive" and when they ask what do you mean by quote un quote drive you can say the same as you do...travel. Also you could post a bond for indemnity>

[BOBT12]

I can’t see that it is good to identify yourself even by giving your name, so that the police can check it in the Orwellian machine.

Or•well•i•an (ôr-w l - n)
adj.
Of, relating to, or evocative of the works of George Orwell, especially the satirical novel 1984, which depicts a futuristic totalitarian state.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

How can I be sure that there are no outstanding warrants, secret or otherwise; or that some official has not entered some criminal evidence against me, such as, liens, levy, tickets, court orders, so on and so forth. The case Hiibel v. Dist. Ct., 118 Nev. Adv. Op. No. 88 (12/20/2002), seem to confirm how “We the People” must labor under judicial corruption. The Fifth Amendment states:

nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law

Harry Browne, the director of public policy at the American Liberty Foundation, said:

The Constitution isn't written in Chinese, Swahili, or Esperanto. It is in plain English. We don't need anyone to translate or interpret for us. It isn't even necessary to study the history of the adoption of the Constitution, since there's nothing mysterious about its words.
Phrases like "make no law" or "shall not be infringed" or "retained by the people" or "reserved to" are comprised of everyday words that require no search for "original intent" or "penumbras."
The Constitution means what it says it means -- or it means nothing at all. And any judge who overrules the plain English of the Constitution is no judge at all -- whether he's been appointed by a Republican or a Democrat.

Emphasis added.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-...RTICLE_ID=13239

You can read more of his articles and find out about his network radio show at http://www.HarryBrowne.org

Preventing the Corruption of Power:

"No government can continue good, but under the control of the people." --Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1819. ME 15:234

"Unless the mass retains sufficient control over those entrusted with the powers of their government, these will be perverted to their own oppression, and to the perpetuation of wealth and power in the individuals and their families selected for the trust." --Thomas Jefferson to M. van der Kemp, 1812. ME 13:136

"No other depositories of power [but the people themselves] have ever yet been found, which did not end in converting to their own profit the earnings of those committed to their charge." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, 1816. ME 15:71

"We fear that [violations of the Constitution] may produce insurrection. Nothing could be so fatal. Anything like force [used against the violators] would check the progress of the public opinion and rally them round the government. This is not the kind of opposition the American people will permit. But keep away all show of force and they will bear down the evil propensities of the government by the constitutional means of election and petition." --Thomas Jefferson to Edmund Pendleton, 1799. ME 10:105

http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Politics/T...on/jeff0350.htm

We all want to avoid government tyranny, knowingly or otherwise. The government tells us we must do it, or else! Thus, we sign up for drivers, business, marriage licenses, ect. Who wants to risk being arrested by the police for standing up for our rights, granted by the Creator, such as the right to travel freely, or not incriminating ourselves.

Yet, a license indicate that we have done something wrong , even though the facts don’t support such a claim.

license, n. 1. A revocable permission to commit some act that would otherwise be unlawful

Black’s Law Dictionary, Seventh Edition.

As Joshua Hansen states:

Assuming that everyone is already a danger and by telling us we must have a license to drive is known better as 'prior restraint' and according to the U.S. Supreme Court is unconstitutional.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=16772

However, the corrupt office holders will not stop with forcing We the People to submit to the Department of Transportation, the IRS, DOJ, Selective Service, your state and local oppressors, and on and on. The deal that the corrupt office holders offer We the People is simple: do what we tell you or go to prison, behind bars, otherwise, you are free to enjoy your “open air” prison. As anyone can see herein, the corruption will keep stealing our freedoms until there is nothing left, until the public’s “substance is eaten out” and they are merely shells of beings, nothing more!

I see no other alternative:

Michael Badnarik, the Libertarian Party's 2004 presidential candidate, doesn't shy away from the fact that he does NOT have a Driver's License, nor does he put tags on his car… but wouldn't it be fun to tell the cops that you don't need a license and to just buzz off?

As HON. RON PAUL OF TEXAS, BEFORE THE US HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
February 9, 2005 states:

This legislation gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to expand required information on driver’s licenses, potentially including such biometric information as retina scans, finger prints, DNA information, and even Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) radio tracking technology. Including such technology as RFID would mean that the federal government, as well as the governments of Canada and Mexico, would know where Americans are at all time of the day and night.

It is time to take the red pill:

Are you ready for your eyes and understanding to be opened so you can see the full extent of how the "American Matrix” shapes everything in your current life?

"None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free."

by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Are you ready to become a “Free” American or do you prefer to continue to live in a blissful slumber within the "American Matrix”? Most Americans ignorantly believe they live in the “Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave” but they are far from Free and in some ways have less freedoms than most other countries of the world.

http://famguardian.org/Publications/HOALPH/HOALPH.htm

I am sure that I will tremble as I take action of this sort, yet, with RFID technology about to mark us like dogs, the time has come for us all to contemplate taking measures such as these. :(

For more information:

HR 418, the REAL ID Act -A National ID Bill Masquerading as Immigration Reform

http://famguardian.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=361


http://forum.suijuris.net/showthread...7755#post27755

[idknow]

free_Martha wrote:

Originally Posted by free_martha

Also, too you can honestly say that you don't own the vehicle and, never have as the state owns the legal title.

And, if they give a ticket, they are in force and in effect, giving a ticket to the state, which of course, you return them to them as they are fining their own property.

free_martha

this is a fascinating statement. can y'all expand on this one please?

[2501]

Bob12, I never give them my name because then I won't have one and they'll have at least two. Simply tell them how they may address you and ask if they have a claim against you. If they do have a claim then they allready have the paperwork filled out to the proper party, all that's left is the service (which must be why they pulled you over right?).
2501

[BOBT12]

Originally Posted by 2501

Bob12, I never give them my name because then I won't have one and they'll have at least two. Simply tell them how they may address you and ask if they have a claim against you. If they do have a claim then they allready have the paperwork filled out to the proper party, all that's left is the service (which must be why they pulled you over right?).
2501

This sounds pretty good to me.