Autos and Bills of Sale

[Ice]

Don't make it any more complicated then it is.& The "codes" apply to them... not to Sovereigns.& "Law" restricts government, not a free people.


Your bill of sale is proof of ownership.


Their "title" crap is nothing more than crap and doesn't mean squat in regards to ownership.


If you register with the state you are basically contracting to follow the rules... you are not giving them your auto.


&

[Jerseee]

Ditto.& That is the purpose of UCC 1-207 or 1-308.& Failure to disclose the terms of the contract means there was no contract from the beginning.


But the whore prosecutor can say that the codes are available to the public.

[phreeman2003]

Some may know my recent plight via my postings. I was travelling with expired plates of more than 6 mos. figuring, since the registration was a yearly expiration any peace officer would realize I'm not trying to fool anyone with the old plates-openly disregarding the registration requirements. I'm choosing the right to travel, due being extorted on trumped up DUI. I don't take kindly to the fact a man out in the wee a.m. hours must blow on demand, when working I'm often travelling those hours of the day.

Well, the auto was impounded and I acquired a 85 bmw 735i my brother had sitting curbside collecting dust. It took me a about a week to get into running shape, more of diagnosis than any major mechanical. I've been through the posts analyzing the most prudent way to get out traveling for personal business I'm loosing hundreds of FRN by the day with my blazer seized, since there's work about town through the summer.

I've been avoiding using the old bimmer even though I've posted the certified copy of the bill of sale, designed my own plate that reads not in commerce between the upper two plate srews, three inch letters not4hire, and pri- property-vate across the bottom. (I'll take and post pic if the folks want them) Then, lastly, in the rear passenger upper 5" portion of the window a yellow sign with black lettering reading no trespassing with a self adhesive no solicitors sign attached. Oh, I also, made a certified copy of preceding bill of sale to keep in glove box.

I think I should be ok cause checking the VIN online doesn't pull up anything with SOS and my niece, who was originally given the car was using illegitimate plates from another vehicle. It had been sitting on the street by my brothers over a year I suspect.

Now, to the point, Illinois has the attached online faxable form. Your state may have them easily obtainable too. I'm going to have my niece fill it out for junker or sold tomorrow and send in on bmw title,since it's lost somewhere. Going downtown to pic up the certificate of search to file with the county with the bill of sale and declaration of private conveyance.

I'm wondering, if when I do the suv I should fax the other docs to the state police with the revocation form.
Is it mandatory to give notice before filing with the county clerks? I would think not, when exercising one's right.

[Notorial dissent]

Originally Posted by phreeman2003

....any peace officer would realize I'm not trying to fool anyone with the old plates-openly disregarding the registration requirements.
They recognized you were driving with expired plates and nailed you. Did they get your for no insurance as well as the DUI?

Well, the auto was impounded ....
kiss that one good bye

I've been avoiding using the old bimmer ....
smartest move so far

.... I've posted the certified copy of the bill of sale, designed my own plate that reads not in commerce between the upper two plate srews, three inch letters not4hire, and pri- property-vate across the bottom.
and this will accomplish what other than notifying any cop who is not brain dead that here is a fresh batch of tickets to hand out and a vehicle to impound

Oh, I also, made a certified copy of preceding bill of sale to keep in glove box.
and when they run the VIN it will come up not in your name and they can then haul you off for suspicion of having a stolen vehicle on top of no license or registration, really good move there

I think I should be ok cause checking the VIN online doesn't pull up anything with SOS and my niece, who was originally given the car was using illegitimate plates from another vehicle. It had been sitting on the street by my brothers over a year I suspect.

Now, to the point, Illinois has the attached online faxable form. Your state may have them easily obtainable too. I'm going to have my niece fill it out for junker or sold tomorrow and send in on bmw title,since it's lost somewhere. Going downtown to pic up the certificate of search to file with the county with the bill of sale and declaration of private conveyance.

I'm wondering, if when I do the suv I should fax the other docs to the state police with the revocation form.
it will certainly make it easier for them to pick you up

Is it mandatory to give notice before filing with the county clerks? I would think not, when exercising one's right.
what, give notice that you are intending to break the law, sound legal thinking there

Illinois, like every other state, has laws that require that ALL vehicles that are used on the public roads, for whatever purpose, be registered, licensed, and insured, and that the operators thereof be licensed as well. To claim that they do not, or that those laws do not apply to you is the height of hubris, self delusion, and self destruction. All that is going to happen is that your new vehicle will end up getting impounded like your old one, as will you for not having license and insurance.

[phreeman2003]

to invalidate this Illinois supreme Court ruling of 1929. A change, that is, other than by the incorporation of the states by-the-way.

“No state government entity has the power to allow or deny passage on the highways, byways, nor waterways... transporting his vehicles and personal property for either recreation or business, but by being subject only to local regulation, i.e., safety, caution, traffic lights, speed limits, etc. Travel is not a privilege requiring licensing, vehicle registration, or forced insurance.” Chicago Coach Co. v. City of Chicago, 337 Ill. 200, 169 N.E. 22.
“Even the legislature has no power to deny to a citizen the right to travel upon the highway and transport his property in the ordinary course of his business or pleasure, though this right may be regulated in accordance with public interest and convenience.” ibid at 206.
“The use of the highway for the purpose of travel and transportation is not a mere privilege, but a common fundamental right of which the public and individuals cannot rightfully be deprived.” ibid at 221.

They recognized you were driving with expired plates and nailed you. Did they get your for no insurance as well as the DUI?

Honestly, how hard is it to tell the difference between a gold and orange sticker, if one isn't color blind?

The trumped up DUI was a previous occurance and had I not used a BAR card negotiator I could have walked away from the incident clean, due the misidentification of the 2000 as a 2006 suv (they are visually quite different), the misidentification of it having tinted windows, when it did not and the fact all the court appearance notices were for the wrong year without even going into the misnomer or corporate sole. Who was drunk, me or the raging patrolman. Instead, it cost me $300 cash at hearing (judge's shoebox vault maybe) and $500 cash right afterwards to negotiator.

And, before you blame it on the qualifications of the negotiator, one of the best DUI sheeple herders, in what legitimate Court would the D.A. believe she could refuse discovery of the police report? The black rober was even
shocked by that attempt.

[cowboy]

Notorial -

So what is your advice or tact on this ??

[FreeFromContract]

Originally Posted by Notorial dissent

Illinois, like every other state, has laws that require that ALL vehicles that are used on the public roads, for whatever purpose, be registered, licensed, and insured, and that the operators thereof be licensed as well. To claim that they do not, or that those laws do not apply to you is the height of hubris, self delusion, and self destruction. All that is going to happen is that your new vehicle will end up getting impounded like your old one, as will you for not having license and insurance.

Most of what you state are half-truths ND. For example, not all states have statutes which allow for an auto to be towed simply because it is uninsured, or unregistered, or the driver is unlicensed.

There is plenty of evidence that there is a right to travel in one's personal property using the public right of ways without the need to license one's self or property. You need to look no further than the successes in these threads for that evidence of fact. People who are prepared and knowledgeable in the "law" know the whole licensing scheme under the guise of "public safety" is nothing more than a money generating scheme for the states.

[Friendsplacect]

What if it is an out of state car?

[Shoonra]

If the driver isn't licensed (or isn't sober), the cops are not supposed to let him drive away. Unless the driver can have someone else (licensed & sober) drive the car for him, the police will PROBABLY have it impounded. The alternative is leaving the car by the side of the road where it can be damaged or stolen (or the unqualified driver might come back for it).

Going back to the question of bill of sale, the license tags on the car are recorded for the owner of record. Offering the cops a document that conflicts with the official DMV records of ownership is probably going to result in inconvenience and maybe worse. If you're driving a car for which you are not the registered owner, I suggest not only carrying the bill of sale (although that might not do the trick) but also carrying your proof of insurance; one of the few reasons I can think of for a new owner using the old tags and not registering his purchase is that he hasn't bothered to get the requisite insurance.

The MSO, incidentally, is essentially the first pink slip for a new car -- the presentation of the MSO is an assurance that you are the first owner, that it was not previously owned. The first owner trades the MSO for his pink slip and from then on the chain of owners is by pink slip.

[David Merrill]

If the driver isn't licensed .... the cops are not supposed to let him drive away.

Lack of probable cause. With no admission of commercial licensing, the cops are outside their jurisdiction.


Regards,

David Merrill.