Production of an operators license - district of Alberta

[powder]

Any thoughts on "the production of an operators license (3) A person having the care and control of a motor vehicle shall produce that person's operator's licence for inspection on demand by any peace officer." ? There is no definition of person in the act...

When I revoke, recsind my DL (sooner than later) I need to be adequately prepared. As such, I need to gain an understanding of how to handle the blue gun thugs.

When I get challanged to produce an "Operators License" I want an adequate response.

I was thinking something like "I am in my private capacity on priviate business (Thanks Kitchie)." They will then state Section 31 of the Act (below). A proper response would a) catch them off gaurd b) assist in my position.

"I am in charge of this machinery and not required to carry a D/O L".

I have included relevent terms from the act as well as section(s).

Motor Vehicle Administration Act
http://www.canlii.org/ab/laws/sta/m-...217/whole.html
R.S.A. 2000, c. M-23

1.
(c) "driver" or "operator" means a person who drives or is in
actual physical control of a vehicle;
(d) "financial responsibility card" means a card issued
pursuant to Part 7 of the Insurance Act;
(g) "insured motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle the owner of which
(i) is insured pursuant to Part 5, Subpart 5 of the Insurance Act in respect of public liability, property damage and accident benefits, or
(ii) repealed RSA 2000 cI-3 s865,
(iii) is a corporation that meets the requirements of section 825(2) of the Insurance Act;
in respect of that motor vehicle;
(n) "operator's licence" means a licence to operate a motor vehicle issued pursuant to this Act;
(o) "owner" includes any person renting a motor vehicle or having the exclusive use of it under a lease or otherwise for a period of more than 30 days;
(v) "subsisting" means, when used in relation to an operator's licence, certificate of registration or permit issued under this Act, an operator's licence, certificate of registration or permit that has not at the relevant time expired or been suspended or cancelled;
(y) "vehicle" means a device in, on or by which a person or thing may be transported or drawn on a highway;
(z) "written-off motor vehicle" means a written-off motor vehicle described in regulations under section 12 of the Highway Traffic Act.
1.1 For the purposes of the following provisions, "operator's
licence" includes a licence or permit issued in a jurisdiction outside
Alberta under which a person may operate a motor vehicle in
Alberta:
sections 1(v), 5 and 5.1;
sections 16 to 33;
sections 57, 57.1, 59(1)(f), 76 and 95(a);
Part 9.
1991 c22 s2
Administration
Registrar, etc.

RSA 1980 cM-22 s31
Production of licence
31(1) A driver of a motor vehicle shall carry his or her operator's licence with him or her at all times during which he or she is driving a motor vehicle and shall produce it for inspection on demand by any peace officer.
(2) A person while engaged in instructing a student driver shall carry that person's operator's licence with that person and shall produce it for inspection on demand by any peace officer.
(3) A person having the care and control of a motor vehicle shall produce that person's operator's licence for inspection on demand by any peace officer.
(4) If the owner of a motor vehicle possesses an operator's licence, that person shall produce the operator's licence for inspection on demand by any peace officer.
--- end of act ---

care n. in law, to be attentive, prudent and vigilant. Essentially, care (and careful) means that a person does everything he/she is supposed to do (to prevent an accident). It is the opposite of negligence (and negligent), which makes the responsible person liable for damages to persons injured. If a person "exercises care," a court cannot find him/her responsible for damages from an accident in which he/she is involved.
control 1) n. the power to direct, manage, oversee and/or restrict the affairs, business or assets of a person or entity. 2) v. to exercise the power of control.
trip A going from one place to another; a journey.
charge (dictionary.com) 1b : to command or instruct with authority

[idknow]

Welcome powder to the Forums.

First and foremost, you want to use Kitchie's name to search for his posts.
they are particularly on-point regarding travelling and driving.

Remember, that "insurance" is a term In Admiralty.

A "driver of a vehicle" is a conductor hired to take passengers and or their property to a place directed;
as in a moving truck, bus or taxi.

Originally Posted by powder

Any thoughts on "the production of an operators license (3) A person having the care and control of a motor vehicle shall produce that person's operator's licence for inspection on demand by any peace officer." ? There is no definition of person in the act...

in Law, where a word is not defined then its common meaning *as defined in legal-dictionaries* applies.
also, Check your Province's section on Statutory Construction and the rest of the motor vehicle code.

In fact, all the definitions you pasted below, c, d, g, n, o, v, y and z, are all commercial terms!

Originally Posted by power

When I revoke, recsind my DL (sooner than later) I need to be adequately prepared. As such, I need to gain an understanding of how to handle the blue gun thugs.

When I get challanged to produce an "Operators License" I want an adequate response.

I was thinking something like "I am in my private capacity on priviate business (Thanks Kitchie)." They will then state Section 31 of the Act (below). A proper response would a) catch them off gaurd b) assist in my position.

"I am in charge of this machinery and not required to carry a D/O L".

I have included relevent terms from the act as well as section(s).

Motor Vehicle Administration Act
http://www.canlii.org/ab/laws/sta/m-...217/whole.html
R.S.A. 2000, c. M-23

1.
(c) "driver" or "operator" means a person who drives or is in
actual physical control of a vehicle;
(d) "financial responsibility card" means a card issued
pursuant to Part 7 of the Insurance Act;
(g) "insured motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle the owner of which
(i) is insured pursuant to Part 5, Subpart 5 of the Insurance Act in respect of public liability, property damage and accident benefits, or
(ii) repealed RSA 2000 cI-3 s865,
(iii) is a corporation that meets the requirements of section 825(2) of the Insurance Act;
in respect of that motor vehicle;
(n) "operator's licence" means a licence to operate a motor vehicle issued pursuant to this Act;
(o) "owner" includes any person renting a motor vehicle or having the exclusive use of it under a lease or otherwise for a period of more than 30 days;
(v) "subsisting" means, when used in relation to an operator's licence, certificate of registration or permit issued under this Act, an operator's licence, certificate of registration or permit that has not at the relevant time expired or been suspended or cancelled;
(y) "vehicle" means a device in, on or by which a person or thing may be transported or drawn on a highway;
(z) "written-off motor vehicle" means a written-off motor vehicle described in regulations under section 12 of the Highway Traffic Act.
1.1 For the purposes of the following provisions, "operator's
licence" includes a licence or permit issued in a jurisdiction outside
Alberta under which a person may operate a motor vehicle in
Alberta:
sections 1(v), 5 and 5.1;
sections 16 to 33;
sections 57, 57.1, 59(1)(f), 76 and 95(a);
Part 9.
1991 c22 s2
Administration
Registrar, etc.

RSA 1980 cM-22 s31
Production of licence
31(1) A driver of a motor vehicle shall carry his or her operator's licence with him or her at all times during which he or she is driving a motor vehicle and shall produce it for inspection on demand by any peace officer.
(2) A person while engaged in instructing a student driver shall carry that person's operator's licence with that person and shall produce it for inspection on demand by any peace officer.
(3) A person having the care and control of a motor vehicle shall produce that person's operator's licence for inspection on demand by any peace officer.
(4) If the owner of a motor vehicle possesses an operator's licence, that person shall produce the operator's licence for inspection on demand by any peace officer.
--- end of act ---

care n. in law, to be attentive, prudent and vigilant. Essentially, care (and careful) means that a person does everything he/she is supposed to do (to prevent an accident). It is the opposite of negligence (and negligent), which makes the responsible person liable for damages to persons injured. If a person "exercises care," a court cannot find him/her responsible for damages from an accident in which he/she is involved.
control 1) n. the power to direct, manage, oversee and/or restrict the affairs, business or assets of a person or entity. 2) v. to exercise the power of control.
trip A going from one place to another; a journey.
charge (dictionary.com) 1b : to command or instruct with authority

[Shoonra]

I wouldn't know about Canadian law, but US courts have made very clear that the requirement (with penalties) that motorists carry their license with them while driving and present that license when asked by a cop is entirely valid, proper and an appropriate. For example, see the essay, "Validity & Construction of Statute Making it a Criminal Offense for the Operator of a Motor Vehicle Not to carry or Display his Operator's License" by B. Finberg, 6 ALR3d 506 (1966).

Even though I don't know Canadian law, I would strongly discourage you from trying to argue from a position of obtuseness about the meaning of a very common word like "person". I am sure that not only would this argument - which borders on the forbidden claim of ignorance of the law - not succeed, but there is a high risk of one of two additional results: (1) the judge may conclude you are acting stupid, or worse (2) the judge may conclude that you are not acting.

[powder]

Shroona, I know you are anti-sovereign and have taken your response as such.

I am ONLY concerned with having my private property forcably removed from my posession. Everything else is in-material.

The "person" p.o.v. is only one angle.

[KITCHIE]

You might try making the agency prove you were in commerce, using the highways for capital gain. Also look up the def. of person defined in your dmv law. Also us fed law in your case. They get fed money so they are bound by fed law as well.

Check fed def. of traffic, commerce, intrastate commerce, drive, car, vehicle, and sutomobile.

They have burdon of proof, since they started the action. You my want to try naming the actors in your brief as Respondants and yourself (a living self-conscious being) as Demandant. These terms might make them cave because these are admiralty terms.

Perhaps you might consider the options you may gain from the above.

I only bring my DL/Operator's with me when I have to cash my check. So that's once a month I bring my DL with me.

When asked for it sometimes I give them a black and white enlarged photo copy showing I signed c.f. (means under duress). Since the autograph is so small I enlarge it so they can see the c.f.

Most of the time I give them my homemade ID and shruken copy of BC. So I am in compliance with presenting photo ID. If they say it's not me and they say that the DL is me then they can prove it. Just because I do not present "their" state issued ID, does not give them probable cause to believe I am someone other than what my ID says.

Kitchie

[test]

Probably you already know this Canadian site:

http://www.natural-person.ca/

They have good info.

[KITCHIE]

By the way I have NO idea what a "sutomobile" is so perhaps the def. of automobile would work out better.

Ktichie

[fulltitle]

Originally Posted by Shoonra

...that motorists carry their license with them while driving and present that license when asked by a cop is entirely valid, proper and an appropriate.

WITHOUT PREJUDICE
If you are in fact driving a license may be required. However, when travelling or sojourning....