An Insurance Question.

[Im Huami]

I am facing a no proof of insurance charge so I was thinking about this.

Here the "owner" is defined as the holder of title. Has anyone actually seen the true title and not just the certificate of title? Is it the MSO? Since the DMV holds the title are they not considered the owner?

I thought I read a cite somewhere stating that all property was held by the state or something to that effect.

When the priest/magician with the black robe or cop asks I am the "owner" and for proof of insurance maybe I could say they are asking the wrong party.

Doesn't the state have some type of risk management insurance? How do I find it and if I give the robe this proof of insurance and my certificate of title would this constitute proof?

Also intresting is the use of the word "deemed" in the last sentence of subd 43.


deem (dm)
v. deemed, deem·ing, deems
v.tr.
1. To have as an opinion; judge: deemed it was time for a change.
2. To regard as; consider: deemed the results unsatisfactory. See Usage Note at as1.
v.intr.
To have an opinion; think. See Synonyms at consider.
[Middle English demen, from Old English dman; see dh- in Indo-European roots.

http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/171/01.html

Subd. 43. Owner. Any person, firm, copartnership,
association, or corporation who holds the legal title to a
vehicle, or in the event a vehicle is the subject of an
agreement for the conditional sale or lease thereof with the
right of purchase upon performance of the conditions stated in
the agreement and with an immediate right of possession vested
in the conditional vendee or lessee, or in the event a mortgagor
of a vehicle is entitled to possession, then such conditional
vendee or lessee or mortgagor shall be deemed the owner for the
purposes of this chapter.

[Judge Roy Bean]

Originally Posted by Im Huami

I am facing a no proof of insurance charge so I was thinking about this.

Here the "owner" is defined as the holder of title. Has anyone actually seen the true title and not just the certificate of title? Is it the MSO? Since the DMV holds the title are they not considered the owner?

No. They hold the original physical title document so it can't be messed with. They issue certificates of title as needed when the property is sold.

Originally Posted by Im Huami

I thought I read a cite somewhere stating that all property was held by the state or something to that effect.

That's another legal myth.

Originally Posted by Im Huami

When the priest/magician with the black robe or cop asks I am the "owner" and for proof of insurance maybe I could say they are asking the wrong party.

It wouldn't help your situation. They really don't care about the vehicle, just your "financial responsibility" to be operating one, so that when or if you get into an accident that is your fault, the damaged party can collect from your insurance company.

Originally Posted by Im Huami

Doesn't the state have some type of risk management insurance? How do I find it and if I give the robe this proof of insurance and my certificate of title would this constitute proof?

The state may or may not have insurance for various risks; many are "self-insured," but those policies or funds wouldn't apply to you or the damage you might cause and not be able to pay for.

Originally Posted by Im Huami

Also intresting is the use of the word "deemed" in the last sentence of subd 43.


deem (dm)
v. deemed, deem·ing, deems
v.tr.
1. To have as an opinion; judge: deemed it was time for a change.
2. To regard as; consider: deemed the results unsatisfactory. See Usage Note at as1.
v.intr.
To have an opinion; think. See Synonyms at consider.
[Middle English demen, from Old English dman; see dh- in Indo-European roots.

http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/171/01.html

Subd. 43. Owner. Any person, firm, copartnership,
association, or corporation who holds the legal title to a
vehicle, or in the event a vehicle is the subject of an
agreement for the conditional sale or lease thereof with the
right of purchase upon performance of the conditions stated in
the agreement and with an immediate right of possession vested
in the conditional vendee or lessee, or in the event a mortgagor
of a vehicle is entitled to possession, then such conditional
vendee or lessee or mortgagor shall be deemed the owner for the
purposes of this chapter.

Don't confuse the meaning of "holder." That does not imply physical posession of the original vehicle title document, merely the officially recognizable certificate thereof.

[Im Huami]

Thanks for your response JRB.

[Akira]

Originally Posted by Judge Roy Bean

They hold the original physical title document so it can't be messed with.

(Akira just shakes his head)

Caveat empor. Buyer beware.

Read the fine print, all of it, if you don’t understand the contract … ask questions. **Pay attention to where the buyer is required to sign to authorize the dealer to obtain plates and registration.

[idknow]

Originally Posted by free_martha

Caveat empor. Buyer beware.

Read the fine print, all of it, if you don*t understand the contract * ask questions. **Pay attention to where the buyer is required to sign to authorize the dealer to obtain plates and registration.

yea, that's called agency and procuration;

it's an evil way of saying that you elect so-and-so to speak for you.

do you need a mouth-piece?

[mrg]

Originally Posted by Akira

(Akira just shakes his head)

...............

Also, is the contract with agency made in the utmost good faith? All limited liablity insurance contracts are ass-U-med made in the utmost good faith with disclosure of all material fact.

Utmost: Of the highest or greatest degree, amount, or intensity; most extreme

GOOD FAITH - Honestly and without deception. An agreement might be declared invalid if one of the parties entered with the intention of defrauded the other.??The duty of each party to an agreement (and all officers, employees, or agents of each party) to act in a fair and equitable manner toward each other so as to guarantee each party freedom from coercion

Originally Posted by free_martha

Also, is the contract with agency made in the utmost good faith? All limited liablity insurance contracts are ass-U-med made in the utmost good faith with disclosure of all material fact.

Utmost: Of the highest or greatest degree, amount, or intensity; most extreme

GOOD FAITH - Honestly and without deception. An agreement might be declared invalid if one of the parties entered with the intention of defrauded the other.??The duty of each party to an agreement (and all officers, employees, or agents of each party) to act in a fair and equitable manner toward each other so as to guarantee each party freedom from coercion

Free: the UCC has a shorter, simpler and therefore broader definition of good faith....

""Good faith" means honesty in fact and the observance of reasonable commercial standards of fair dealing. "

Because the states are bound by the UCC, they are therefore bound by the definitions contained therein. This is especially true where monetary units are involved.

Jerry.

Originally Posted by free_martha

Also, is the contract with agency made in the utmost good faith? All limited liablity insurance contracts are ass-U-med made in the utmost good faith with disclosure of all material fact.

Utmost: Of the highest or greatest degree, amount, or intensity; most extreme

GOOD FAITH - Honestly and without deception. An agreement might be declared invalid if one of the parties entered with the intention of defrauded the other.??The duty of each party to an agreement (and all officers, employees, or agents of each party) to act in a fair and equitable manner toward each other so as to guarantee each party freedom from coercion

Free: the UCC has a shorter, simpler and therefore broader definition of good faith....

""Good faith" means honesty in fact and the observance of reasonable commercial standards of fair dealing. "

Because the states are bound by the UCC, they are therefore bound by the definitions contained therein. This is especially true where monetary units are involved.

Jerry.