Traffic Court Losses

[weishaupt1776]

[color=black][b] I was thinking of using this as a thread to post our defeats &/or denial of motions. Here is what happened:



Please have mercy on me, guys as I've been at this court/common law thing since late June. This was also my first time & I was tongue tied with all of this paperwork in front of me. This was here in Florida.



I filed the AoT on Oct 11 w/ an MoD. I mentioned that the affidavit was not rebutted w/ in the 10 day period & the judge blew it off. The Motion hearing was today 10/25 and all there was was the judge & me w/ no prosecution. . He said my motions were based on civil procedure & not applicable to a civil infraction. I asked if this was admin or jud & he said jud. I asked if the word person in the cited statute included flesh & blood people & he said yes. I then said I was here under duress & he said that's right you have no other choice but to sign it otherwise you'll be arrested, so it is under duress. I moved for discovery & he said that is not applicable to civ infr & it will have to go to trial & to set it w/the clerk. He then denied the motions.



I walked down there, and the clerk punched it up & said your plea is not guilty & the trial is set for Jan 19. I was stunned. I said I did not plea & was not informed by the judge that he entered a plea. After much deliberation, I went back to the courtroom & said that there was not enough information from which to enter a plea. He just steamrolled it. I asked if he was offering to be my attorney, empty bench, etc. . . I showed him case law regarding affidavits & how the plaintiff had to show jurisdiction by affidavit and he said that's only in civil cases.

I was stuck-I didn't object like should have or ask for JD of his oath, etc. . .

I asked who the prosecution would be, and he said the Sheriff would be.



I went back & they said I either sign the thing now or get hit w/late fees, So I signed the thing under duress with A.R.R like I did w/ the ticket.



Now I am thoroughly confused. The ticket is a civil infraction, but the civ proc is not recognized. A plea has been entered against my will.



SHOULD I, default the sheriff personally since he is the prosecutor? all that's filed w/ the court now is the AoT & the notice to cure.

[Akira]

Weis,



First off... you did just fine... as many here will attest, traffic court is extremely corrupt.. and it's one thing to read it.. but to stand up and do it, regardless of odds, and get that first hand experience, is something money just can't buy. Congrats !



Contrary to what many here will tell you, I think traffic court is a great place to gain experience, as the costs of doing so are usually much lower than some other forms of 'court'. Just the opportunity to experience that first brain fart while standing before the court is a major lesson in itself, The fact that you offered any paperwork, had any understanding of precedure, or even attempted to stand your ground and speak, automaticly puts you in the top 1% of the sheep that walk thru there.



[QUOTE by Weis] He said my motions were based on civil procedure & not applicable to a civil infraction. I asked if this was admin or jud & he said jud. [/quote]



Regarding the 'civil infraction', I offer this post, as it appears there was (at least) one opportunity there...



Weis, again, you were GREAT ! You stood against the BEAST ! You have officially separated yourself from the chaff !



(the link above has lost it's formatting.. I'm off to fix it)



For HIS Glory,

Akira

ok, if i were to get a ticket, i would cancel the contract (ticket) and send out paperwork for lack of subject matter jurisdiction and personal jurisdiction over me. there HAS to be a damaged party. i would give them so many days to cancel the whole affair and state that any appearance by me after that fact would be under total duress and extortion and threats of jail and fines. i would then show up if i had to (they still ignore the paperwork) and say, i dont plea because u dont have jurisdiction, read my affidavit, produce a contract or a flesh and blood damaged party. (with a copy of the judges oath in hand).

[KaosTheory]

Weis,



I think anyone would have been caught off guard with that load of bullcrap. Civil infraction....heh heh what the hell is that? What does that have to do with fraudulent contracts? Did you get the judge to tell you what the SMJ was? How the hell can he establish any kind of jurisdiction with a fraudulent contract? I'm as stupified as you are.



I haven't been over to Clyde's site yet. DId you post anything over there?

[gregtu]

weis, why in the world did you entertain this judge? You filed your docs. they didn't rebutt, so please tell me why did you go forward? When you started asking questions, you gave him jurisdiction over you, or did you challenge smj? Do you not trust the paperwork you filed?

[weishaupt1776]

[b]My first mistake was that I didn't file the affidavit alone. I used motions for civil procedure which he easily shot holes in.I asked a few times why my affidavit wasn't rebutted, and he said those don't fit in with the rules of traffic. First of all , it was a motions hearing.Second of all, there was no prosecutor. So my filings were directed at no one. Since he said the Sheriff is the prosecutor, I'm gonna now figuratively bomb him with affidavits between now & Jan 19.

This is Un-official as this was my first try at this & I was ill prepared as far as getting this exchange notarized. There are alot extras omitted from my previous post because I had abbreviated it before, but I have gone over every second in this one:

JUDGE PAUL LEVINE: Okay, reading your motions I'm a little confused Motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim for which relief can be granted?

ME: Yes

JUDGE: This is a civil infraction for a speeding ticket. Traffic rules have their own set of traffic rules & if they are not covered under the traffic rules then criminal rules apply but this is not a criminal case, this is a civil infraction. So your motion is more of a civil pleading for a plaintiff-defendant civil suit for a contractual thing - This is for a speeding ticket.

ME:I filed an affidavit to be rebutted in 10 days in support of the motion

(judge flips through the papers)

JUDGE: I'm not going to give you a hard time, but they don't make any sense with respect to what you're charged with- this is just a speeding ticket. Everything that you need-I assume you signed the ticket on the bottom acknowledging you signed that ticket that's all that does. . .

ME:I'm responding in that it was signed under duress

JUDGE: well you have to sign it. You sign it or you get arrested. By signing it it doesn't mean you accept fault or guilt. Signing it means you accept the ticket.

ME: I was signing it under pressure because I didn't agree with the officer at the time.

JUDGE: You don't have to agree with him. All it is is an acknowledgement of a charge that you've been speeding.You don't have to agree. That's what I do.I decide if you were speeding or not.You don't sign the ticket you go to jail.So you really have no choice.You sign the ticket or you go to jail-that's your only choice so that is duress.It's supposed to be.

ME: I wasn' left with any other choice.......

JUDGE: there is no other choice. I just told you. You either sign the ticket or you go to jail. That's it there is no other choice.
ME: And this is in regards to UNLAWFUL SPEED?
JUDGE:The reason for that is that by signing the ticket you're promising to appear in court.I'm the one that decides if you broke the law or not. That's what courts are for. By signing the ticket. That just says, " I will appear in court in front of a judge & litigate this thing. If you don't sign the ticket, then the cop can't prove you were served, so he has to arrest you. that's the Law

ME: Is the nature of this proceeding Administrative?

JUDGE:UH, no it's not administrative

ME: So this is a Judicial proceeding?

JUDGE: Yeah

ME:Is there any appearances of the Prosecution or Plaintiff on record?

JUDGE: Yeah - the ticket. That's the prosecuting device for speeding is the ticket itself. Everythings done proper. I looked at the ticket. you have to understand that something civil in nature or criminal in nature or civil litigation based on a contractual dispute, they all have their separate rules. .The rules that you fall under are the civil infraction rules & nothing's been done wrong. cop gave you a ticket, you signed for it, it alleges you were speeding. I now question whether you were speeding or not. That's a different matter for trial. Today this is a motion to dismiss, a motion trial. But I don't see any grounds to dismiss this ticket.You're jumbling up Civil Rules w/ Traffic rules.

ME: So the power of this court lies over statutory persons?

JUDGE: I'm not sure what you mean

ME: In regards to person-the definition of it-I was confused-Does the word person in statutes include people? Flesh & blood people and citizens?
As far as the posted speed limit goes, I wasn't driving a school bus at the time or


JUDGE: Nods (but inaudible-POSSIBLY he didn't admit that)

ME: I had asked for a point by point rebuttal of my affidavit. Should I serve the deputy who served me with the citation?

JUDGE: :there's no provision under the rules to be requesting what you're requesting,Everything you need for a civil infraction is right on this ticket.There's nothing more that you're entitled to. Besides what's on that ticket what else do you need to defend your case?

ME:I'll have to make that determination between now and trial.



I go to the clerk & find out about the judge secretly entering a not guilty plea.

Back to the courtroom

Okay, here's where you're at. We're trying to help you through your case. We know you're not a lawyer, etc . . . There's only 3 types of pleas, etc . . .
When you want a hearing and want to cntest the charges, you enter a not guilty plea.

ME:I don't really have enough information to enter a plea.
JUDGE: what more information do you need?

ME:I submitted an affidavit that has yet to be rebutted and I'm not aware of the prosecution. Who's prosecuting?

JUDGE: I already told you, it's the State of Florida-It's by virtue of the ticket.Pinellas County Sheriff's Office has charged you with speeding. Those are the plaintiffs in the case and they made you that charge. that's a valid charge. The affidavit is non-sensical. It makes no sense. What you have to do-I can enter a not guilty plea for you/ I just wanted to make sure that . . .It doesn't sound like you have any concept of what you're doing. So I'm going to enter in a not guilty plea for you which I will now do when I find people who are mentally incompetent or if they don't have what they need to understand the process.
either you're trying to give me a hard time intentionally or you truly don't understand what you're doing. I'd rather believe that you truly don't understand what you're doing, so I'm going to enter a not guilty plea for you.

ME: Are you offering to be my attorney by representing me by entering a plea in for me?

JUDGE:No. not in the least. what I have to do is look out for the people who come in front of me.

ME:It is not my intention to give you a hard time, be evasive, or to refuse what youre doing , but wouldn't that leave an empty bench by you entering in a plea on my behalf which I don't necessarily agree with? Based on the lack of information.

JUDGE:The lack of information is in your mind. There's really no legal lack of information.

ME: I haven't really been presented with any material fact of whatever the guy wrote down & forced me to sign. I haven't been presented with any evidence for which to form any kind of plea to.

May I move the court for discovery?
JUDGE: In traffic infractions there is no discovery
ME:Or an evidentiary hearing.
JUDGE You're going to have an evidentiary hearing on the 19th.

ME::Not to tie you up here, but regarding affidavits.... if there's any question of jurisdiction... the burden shifts to the plaintiff to prove by affidavit or other sworn statement that jurisdiction is proper

JUDGE:That's in a civil case, this is a traffic infraction case. So if you were given a ticket in Pinellas county then jurisdiction is ______??(couldn't hear it). If you were given a ticket outside pinellas county, then you would have a valid point. that's the kind of thing that's discussed at trial. One of the things the cop has to prove, is that you violated the law in Pinellas County.

ME: In regards to the statute , UNLAWFUL SPEED, "No school Bus shall exceed the posted speed limit.

JUDGE:I don't know where you'r reading that from

ME:316.183. "No driver shall exceed the posted speed limit in a work zone area.. Those are the only 2 things regarding going over the posted speed limit. And there's no prosecution?

JUDGE: the cop is the prosecution -in a traffic infraction.


the rest is dates, times, etc . . .

[gregtu]

Okay, now I understand. Now I feel much better:-) Bet they throw the ticket out, or they will try to reduce the amount to little or nothing, just so the secret don't get out. If they didn't rebutt the corporate denial affidavit, they are done!

[Camino]

FYI

Check out this link (Louisiana)

http://www.legis.state.la.us/tsrs/ts...15&section=429

It states "Corporate existence presumed unless affidavit of denial filed before trial "

[EnSabahNur]

Weis,



Did you get a copy of the Judges decision to enter a plea of not guilty for you?



If you did, try signing it, and then sending that to the court with a letter stating "Thank you your Honor for the acquittal that I am not guilty, I see no reason for this matter to proceed any further. I will not present myself before the court at any future date for a matter that has already been settled. Thank you."



Or something to that effect. If the judge eneterd a plea of "Not Guilty" for you, then he has ruled you not guilty. Unless of course he made himself your legal representative, then he was not able to be the judge, as he cannot be your legal representative and the judge at the same time.



This way you are not arguing with them...you are agreeing with his decision...so DO NOT let it proceed beyond this. If he fights with you, he is proving his fraud by either NOT honoring his own decision, or by being both your Legal Representative and Judge at the same time...tsk..tsk...tsk...naughty judge.





Make sense. Feel free to word in any way you want, but that is the route I would go.



P.S- NEVER GO TO COURT....CANCEL THEIR OFFERS. This is what happens when you go to court....you have No rights, and they can ignore whatever you do......unless your really good, but it is easy to trip yourself up.

[gregtu]

I agree, stay out of their court!!!!!!