Accept Ticket Conditionally

[Dillon Hunt]

I was thinking of another approach along these lines given to officer at time of citation.
Give them what they want conditionally to stay in honor.


PLEASE READ THIS SPECIAL APPEARANCE CAREFULLY

NOTICE OF SPECIAL RESTRICTED APPEARANCE in Pro Per to Challenge Jurisdiction

Notice to the agents is notice to the principals and notice to the principals is notice to agents applies to my agreement to Specially Appear per your Notice of Personal Appearance.

NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN TO ALL INTERESTED PERSON(S) and his/her/its attorney(s) that : I do hereby NOW Specially Appear in my own right and for the sole purpose of objecting to and challenging jurisdiction.

Presented to Officers and Prosecutor : ___________________ Date: ____________________

"Appearance" is defined by Bouvier to be "a coming into court as a party to a suit, whether as plaintiff or defendant; the formal proceeding by which a defendant submits himself to the jurisdiction of the court"; while the word "defend" is defined in Black's Law Dictionary as follows: "To contest and endeavor to defeat a claim or demand against one in a court of justice."

"An alleged defendant appears in an action when he answers, demurs, or gives the plaintiff written notice of his appearance, or when an attorney gives notice of an appearance for him. Although an answer is an appearance, an appearance is not necessarily an answer. The words "answer" and "appear" are not synonymous.

There is a possibility that your organizations may interpret or presume the definition of "appearance" in Bouvier (above) to create the presumption that, by signing a Promise on a Notice to Appear, I have agreed to become a party in a proposed legal proceeding initiated without proper or timely personal service of process with evidence of an injured party. That potential Interpretation or Presumption is incorrect.

My agreement is to be physically present at the place and time set in your Notice of Personal Appearance only upon the conditions of (1) proof of jurisdiction signed under penalty of perjury by the prosecutor with evidence of an injured party and (2) that proof being sent to me within 10 days of your receipt of this NOTICE OF SPECIAL RESTRICTED APPEARANCE.

It is my intention that this Notice of Special Restricted Appearance constitutes my full, complete, and total performance of my Promise to Appear and completely discharges any and all obligation(s) which any court may presume against me.

NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that I have no known debt, duty and/or obligation to the potential opposing party that I should obligate myself to, by executing a Recognizance.


John Private : ______________, ___________________

Contact Private Mailing Addresses: c/o 123 Main St., City, State
Contact Private Phone: [xxx-xxxx].


Any Comments Appreciated

Dillon \ Not Legal Advice just thinking out loud.

[mystic one]

Is a copy of this form given to the officer at time of pullover or are you doing this as a refusal for cause/Restricted Appearance recorded in the district court within the 72 hours?

I presume if one wanted to be ****y and fun , he could hand this to the officer through the window at the time of billing.. I was also hearing something about the officer needs to give you the original of the citation, as the copy is null and void- due to bill of lading rules...

[Shoonra]

Let me put it this way: A traffic ticket is a summons to appear in court at a future date. If you refuse to accept or sign it, you may well be taken into court that very minute, no matter how inconvenient it is to you.

You don't get to argue the law with the policeman. You don't get to put conditions on your acceptance of the ticket. If you have any sort of legal arguments bring them up in court, don't waste the policeman's time and yours by trying to recite them on the side of the road.

I wouldn't be too confident in an argument based on a 19th century legal dictionary.

shoonra is right, dont get into any arguments with the mafia, i mean, private security officers working for the corporate city. they are armed, dangerous and will kill or kidnap you. they will not know the law or care because most cities give a I.Q. test and if they score too high, they will not be accepted into police academy. cant be going around figuring out that police are actually terroists. and the summons they have, only judges can issue summons, no traffic tickets originate from a courthouse, they orginate from police headquarters,massive fraud on the face all out in tha open, thats why they have low intelligence.

Originally Posted by Shoonra

Let me put it this way: A traffic ticket is a summons to appear in court at a future date. If you refuse to accept or sign it, you may well be taken into court that very minute, no matter how inconvenient it is to you.

You don't get to argue the law with the policeman. You don't get to put conditions on your acceptance of the ticket. If you have any sort of legal arguments bring them up in court, don't waste the policeman's time and yours by trying to recite them on the side of the road.

I wouldn't be too confident in an argument based on a 19th century legal dictionary.

[Dillon Hunt]

The idea is to appear by the notice, thereby the officer becomes my agent of special appearance to the court. I just let the officer know orally I am appearing now by this notice to him and latter agree to appear again in court only upon proof of jurisdiction and proof of an injured party etc. One is an answer and the other is a conditional special appearance. I get a witness or recording of the conversation. I sign whatever he wants conditionally so he can’t say I would not agree to appear. If the officer will not let me sign conditionally I will tell him it is a legal conditional endorsement and if he still makes me sign unconditionally I sign it because he has the Notice of my agreement.

I see if he is willing to give me the original ticket also.

Dillon

[mystic one]

Good job and well thought out dillion. Keep up the good work.


Tha Mystical One

[Shoonra]

Originally Posted by Dillon Hunt

The idea is to appear by the notice, thereby the officer becomes my agent of special appearance to the court.

When you are supposed to appear, the traffic court expects YOU to appear, in the flesh, not "by notice". You can bring witnesses, a lawyer, whatever, with you but you are expected to show up.

The policeman is already an employee (an agent) of the state, and he is legally prohibited from being co-opted as an agent for anyone else. I am not sure what you meant by "agent of special appearance".

Special appearance means an argument, preliminary to any argument on the actual occurrence, on the jurisdiction of the court. You would simply announce in court that you are making a special appearance, which tells the judge that you are disputing jurisdiction; you don't need (or have any use for) "agents" for raising that issue. Unless there was a geographical mistake, the chance of winning such an argument in traffic court are nearly non-existent. When the jurisdictional issue is decided against you, be prepared to go immediately into arguing the merits of the case.

[Dillon Hunt]

A copy of This Notice of special restricted appearance is also sent to the court and prosecutor just is case the officer doesn’t give his copy to the court. Remember I have agreed Orally and in Print to ONLY a Special Personal Appearance in Pro Per if Jurisdiction and Injured party is proven and this proof is sent to me. I have my record of this orally given to the officer at the time of the citation. The ball is in there court (no pun intended) now. I will also add this paragraph to the sent Notice:

Should said potential opposing party continue to fail and/or neglect to Serve upon me a valid Summons with a verified Complaint with Evidence of an injured party prior to the scheduled time set, I will agree with said potential opposing party that said potential opposing party has no valid Complaint with Evidence of an Injured party, will accept said opposing party's default, and will accept estoppel of said potential opposing party's Claim/Complaint. No Liability Assumed - No Value Assured - Without Recourse

It is not a court order which requires me to appear but it’s my signature on the citation.


My Goal is to never to have to go into Court in the first place.


Dillon

[Shoonra]

When the law requires you to "sign" or put your "signature" on a traffic ticket, that's all you're supposed to do. Adding or substituting some sort of legalistic mumbo-jumbo to your name is, at best, a waste of ink.

Traffic tickets are NOT contracts, offers to contract, or anything else susceptible to negotiation. They tell you to show up in traffic court on a certain day, prepared to respond to a particular accusation. Ignoring this "invitation" seldom has a pleasant outcome.

[FreeFromContract]

Originally Posted by Shoonra

When the law requires you to "sign" or put your "signature" on a traffic ticket, that's all you're supposed to do. Adding or substituting some sort of legalistic mumbo-jumbo to your name is, at best, a waste of ink.

Traffic tickets are NOT contracts, offers to contract, or anything else susceptible to negotiation. They tell you to show up in traffic court on a certain day, prepared to respond to a particular accusation. Ignoring this "invitation" seldom has a pleasant outcome.

And yet there are many examples on this website of people doing just that and following it up with process who are getting these tickets dismissed. But hey, most of us here understand you love your police state and are determined to defend its actions.