Important Suggestion Re: UCC-1

[Madeline]

If you are following the advice of anyone specific, check THEIR UCC-1 filing. Especially if they charge hundreds or thousands of dollars for seminars. If they refuse you to give you their real name, or are telling you to file and do not have one filed...

Run the other direction screaming and setting yourself on fire. You'll still wind up in better shape than you would listening to some of these guys.

The unfortunate thing is that many people see this as a cash cow and are using it to experiment with other peoples lives. It's no big deal for them to sit back while you lose your home or go to jail. You already paid them.

Oh and by the way, they were only helping you for entertainment purposes so they think they're not legally liable for helping you go to jail. I'd like to see someone prove different. I've been fortunate enough to avoid a few of these folks. I've just seen what people have gone through listening to them and it is horrific. I think more of them will be exposed sooner than later.

I'm going to be attending one seminar in the not so distant future where they believe so much in what they are teaching (this is not a UCC/redemption seminar) that they will accept any level of donation for you to be able to attend. This tells me this particular party is not solely interested in profit, but more so in getting the word out.

Profiting at the process of others' demise has got to be some sort of mortal sin. Maybe that's when it will finally catch up with a few of these folks. Judgement Day will come sooner or later.

[mrg]

What did the people that went to jail do that got them put in jail?

Who, specifically are you talking about?

If you can't name names, why not?

We really need to know WHO to watch out for?

Who have you been fortunate enough to have avoided?

We need to know some particulars.

Your post is sort of vague and general.

Could you PLEASE be really clear and very specific.

Could you describe some of the horrific things you have personally seen people go through?

Being really specific, detailed and clear would really help out a lot of people who might get taken by these people.

Surely you must have names of the people who charged hundreds if not thousands for seminars.

There must have been advertisements.

Even if they are not their real names at least we would know what names to look out for when they advertise their seminars.

Surely you must have some clear details of how the scam works and exactly what got people pur into jail.

Any precise, detailed, clear, and concise specific information you could share would be a very valuable contribution.

It would be a shame to post such a general and unspecified warning and then not be able to really help us out with some details and specifics.

Please, this, sounds very bad, could you help?

Please?

[Jerry Pitts]

Perhaps the possible charges of libel, slander, defamation of character.... might be reason not to make a more definite and concise statement of alleged facts.

Jerry

[weishaupt1776]

Originally Posted by Jerry Pitts

Perhaps the possible charges of libel, slander, defamation of character.... might be reason not to make a more definite and concise statement of alleged facts.

Jerry

Madeline could use metaphor, allegory, or other literary inferences such as "Queen Victoria", "Jack's On, Jacks' Off", etc . . .

She also could be more specific per mrg's request

[ss_stealth]

Originally Posted by Jerry Pitts

Perhaps the possible charges of libel, slander, defamation of character.... might be reason not to make a more definite and concise statement of alleged facts.

Jerry

But if they're "alleged" "facts" then is there really a case for what Madeline might claim as being slanderous or defamatory?

[Jerry Pitts]

Originally Posted by ss_stealth

But if they're "alleged" "facts" then is there really a case for what Madeline might claim as being slanderous or defamatory?

Thus the reasoning behind my use of terms such as "alleged" and "possible".

One is claiming something to be factual, while the other may desire to rebut the statement. In either case, there is/are multitudinous possibilities in life, but to prove any of them to be a fact (other than the maxim 'there is only one pragmatic absolute in life; that being - everyone will live until they die; anything claimed thereafter, is a matter of opinion/perspective/speculation) would be to either of the two parties of the dispute. Until such time, it is sheer speculation.

"The whole system is based upon a 'presumption' that something was represented to have occurred which may or may not have occurred in the manner which has been represented."

My claims were based upon a 'speculation', which is made apparent in the use of the word 'possibilities'. I neither claimed that the 'facts' were true or un-true. thus the reason for the use of the word "alleged". I have no personal first hand knowledge of the truth of either side of the scenario, as I do not know the "facts", but can only speculate.

Jerry

[ss_stealth]

Alright, you lost me Jerry. Guess I'm extra slow today.

Are you telling me it's better to say something is a "possibility" than is to claim it to be "alleged"?

Originally Posted by http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/alleged

Pronunciation:
\ə-ˈlejd, -ˈle-jəd\
Function:
adjective
Date:
15th century

1 : asserted to be true or to exist <an alleged miracle>
2 : questionably true or of a specified kind : supposed so-called <bought an alleged antique vase>
3 : accused but not proven or convicted <an alleged burglar>
— al·leg·ed·ly Listen to the pronunciation of allegedly \-ˈle-jəd-lē\ adverb

[Jerry Pitts]

Not really SSS:

Looking back at the initial statements of this thread, it can be seen that the author is making 'allegations' by 'alleging' something to be true, that may or may not be true.

Without the author providing supporting documentation or other evidence to substantiate his/her claims/charges/allegations, then those allegations are nothing more to the observer than a speculation. Also, because the author did not bring forth any evidence to substantiate the claims/charges/allegations, then the author may (possibly) have created a tort wherein the people the author speaks of could be damaged if the author had made mention of the specific names, dates, places, events, etc., thereby opening the door for counterclaim of -possibly- slander, defamation of character, libel... etc.

To say something is a 'possibility' is un-deniable. Anything is possible. On the other hand, to make an 'allegation' is to make a charge/claim relative to a supposed fact. It is a 'presumption', and presumptions are what the courts use to entrap all of us. We are 'presumed' to know the law. Why? Because the 'presumption' is based on yet another 'presumption' that we are the 'sovereign'; as the sovereign, we are also the 'law-maker' and as such, we have no excuse to NOT know the law.

In the instant case; there has been created a 'presumption' that 'no one will question what I say', therefore, I am not obligated to substantiate what I say.' But even the best laid plans are subject to failure.

Jerry

Originally Posted by ss_stealth

Alright, you lost me Jerry. Guess I'm extra slow today.

Are you telling me it's better to say something is a "possibility" than is to claim it to be "alleged"?

[mrg]

What did the people that went to jail do that got them put in jail?

We need to know some particulars.

Your post is sort of vague and general.

Could you PLEASE be really clear and very specific.

Could you describe some of the horrific things you have personally seen people go through?

Being really specific, detailed and clear would really help out a lot of people who might get taken by these people.

Surely you must have names of the people who charged hundreds if not thousands for seminars.

There must have been advertisements.

I know it would perhaps be indiscreet to disclose actual names, but, perhaps, you have links to or at least information as to where one might go to look for such specific advertisement of such seminars that cost in the hundreds and even thousands.

Please, throw me a bone?

Surely you must have some clear details of how the scam works and exactly what got people put into jail.

Would you please, PLEASE, please, provide (from your own personal experiences, involving your own admitted pesonal escapes), details of both your actual knowledge, as wel as perceptions of the mechanics of the scam itself, and the purported merchandise being offered, apparently, for sale?

Please; such detail would only further your own apparent goal of educating people as to the nature and form of the danger you apparently seek to expose.

Any precise, detailed, clear, and concise specific information you could share would be a very valuable contribution.

It would be a shame to post such a general and unspecified warning and then not be able to really help us out with some details and specifics.

Please, this, sounds very bad, could you help?

Please?

Again, specifics and clarity, at least with descriptive particularity, rather that vagueness, and generality, would be of far greater value to those of us who might become victim.

In fact, vagueness and generality might, perhaps, actually tend to lead the unwary into exploring the very thing you are warning against, and send those people, looking for clarification, into the same situations you only seem to vaguely allude to.

Originally Posted by Madeline

How does one do this?

How did you find out about these particular seminars, and is there any discreet way you could provide information on where one might find and consider this firsthand?

Can you provide some substantive anectdotals wherein people have refused to give you, or others, their real name (and if it is known not to be their real name, perhaps you could, without legal risk, expose their alias)?

Again, this sounds very very bad, yet you leave the reader hanging.

Please, if it is so bad, help us, by exposing particulars and specifics with a substantive degree of precision.

Again, please?

This is terrible.

Please show us the mechanics of how this is being perpetrated.

You must know for certain, or certainly you would not be able to entertain such as mere thoughts.

Again, this is terrible.

Please, please, show how this is true, that people would do this, won't you please help us by showing how this intent led to the ends described (especially regarding going to jail)?

Did those unfortunate innocent victims who entertained any proposition entertain such ideas with discretion, or were they, themselves, applying consideration of the possibility of short-term, instant gratification, "easy money," "get out of jail free," "something for nothing," and/or quick band-aid solutions to immediate problems, rather than any long term uses, goals, and/or possible ramifications?

The "helping" of one "go to jail" that you have brought up is, to me the meat of the matter, and my plea to you is to show the precise mechanics of these happenings and the precise relationship of the ones providing the means to entertainment to the ones who entertain the ideas and act upon that entertainment, that lead to the specific and particular "helping" of one to "go to jail."

This would really be helpful, appreciated, very honorable, most appreciated, and highly valued.

What, precisely, is it you would "like to see someone prove different," and as a reference what have you, in relevance, proven that would be disproven or proved "different?"

This also is the very meat of the matter, and clarification, exemplification, illustration, etc., of your fortune is one of the very things that would be most helpful in effecting the object of your "important suggestion."

Please, can you help us out here?

Please?

This is, again, of especial importance!

Please, I beg of you, for details and clarity here.

Descriptions, thorough, detailed, clear, and concise, presented through honest authentic anectdotal, would be a very strong remedy to temptation to succomb in confidence, as well as to expose the nature and mechanics of the scam, as well as empirical relativity of cause to effect.

More of the stories of the victims?

Please help us here, as you have professed, and/or expressed to be in position to do so.

What is "UCC/redemption?"

Howso?

Indeed, the IRS/Federal Reserve stockholders/DOJ scheme comes to mind, as do the schemes of war financiers/investors/profiteers, as well as the practitioners of accepting promissory notes, bonded by signature (word) in good faith, and using such on two sides of an accrual accounting ledger in order to create an asset, then presuming to "lend" the promisory note created asset just accounted back to the creator of the instrument under the presumption that the there is a "risk loan" of pre-existing funds, and then, in collusion with a bank of issue's public policy of lending into existence enough credit to acquire goods and services through the above described scheme, but not enough to service the "interest" on the new debt "loaned" into existence by banking monetized promisory notes as assets, and balancing the account by reflecting an offsetting debit consisting of redisbusing the asset created by the bond as a "loan" to the creator of the bond, and, in time, re-aquiring the physical property if one experiences the quandary of not enough credit being released into the economy to cover both the self-created "loan" principal, and the accrual of the interest in the principal.

This only touches upon some of the other such scammers as the ones you have but hinted at.

That goes for all.

Again, you seem to be in a real position to help, as you are in possession of first hand knowledge.

Again I plea, won't you please help us?

[Shoonra]

Florida newsclipping of Jan. 10, 2008:

http://www.northcountrygazette.org/n...e_judge_liens/

David Williams 3rd succeeded in winning more than 19 years of free room and board after a two day trial in federal court that convicted him of multiple counts of mail fraud, obstruction of justice, and filing false claims because he had filed several liens against prosecutors and judges in cases that went against him. He was a member of the Redemption Movement.