Defending your UCC FS in court.

[nralien]

lithmus2



When asked the question are you SARAH JANE could you respond with "DEBTOR or Creditor?"



DEBTOR or Secured Party, Holder in due course, flesh-and-blood...?



A thread in Court/Court Cites re: A4V & Discharge and Dishonor of an Indictment charlene states



"I beleive what I do, has a solid foundation, I filed a legal public notice, declarations,and lawful protest before I started any ucc filings. This protest is what has given me legal ground to capture my strawman and do all of my filings. This protest was signed by the Ohis SOS and also was sent to Washington D.C. and was signed by Department of State-United States Of America- Colin Powell."



Maybe charlene could share a little more of the paperwork and the process to get these signatures from the SOS's?



nralien

Originally Posted by Jerseee

Lithmus,



Good position taken.



First things first....you mention acceptance and presumption. Both of these terms are what they are.



This is true, but presumption allows the lies to be spread all over the place perpetually example DeFacto government isntead of Dejure government.



What I mean is dabbling in this STRAWMAN UCC stuff is an attractive nuisance to the redemtpion movement. Contracting with it means you are accepting it.



And by accepting it, I get to insert my own terms, isn't that what what a Soveran does when it comes to HIS own business? Doesn't he control his own buisiness?? Isn't that what this is all about? By inserting your own terms, you get to control the DeFacto government.



Also, who cares what their presumption is....what we care about is them proving their claim.



I care about both, because untill you get rid of this DeFacto government, which most of mankind PRESUMES is the Dejure government you are never going to have it be for mankind, it will always be for Our Kind, that is to say the Servants.



You can know the truth about their fraud but the real key is to catch them in it and have them admit to it, publicly or privately. You cannot do this when you are trying to capture the STRAWMAN and contract with it.



I don't TRY to capture the STRAWMAN, I did it. So do it then allready, get them to admit it by default. Why can't you get them to admit to it when you have allready captured your STRAWMAN?



Its okay to know these things but why are you accepting them? You only use this information to your advantage and not to try to gain control of it.



Why fight it? I'm going to accept it, and insert my own terms ,and have them default on it.



And yes you are stealing. Although they are using your property without your permission--they created the STRAWMAN not you. You are allowed to use it but you can't have it. It is their property. You did not create it.



Your property, you said it, It's impossible to steal your property. I would love to see the State file thier Claim and blow the lid off this whoe DAMN SCAM!!!! Then perhaps I could probable get them on TREASON, I would love to do that.



The STRAWMAN. A dubious character because this is who they license, this is who they tax, this is who they give permits to, this is who they make legislation for...if you are a true sovereign you wouldn't steal or try to control something that does not belong to you.



I don't believe it to be stealing because of presumption, This is true, I wouldn't steal or try to control something that doesn't belong to me, but that STRAWMAN does because I have just accepted thier offer to Contract, with my mom on my behalf, you know the birth Certificate, and I have inserted my own terms, claimed it, and they didn't say anything about it. COME ON STATE, WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?? BRING FORWARD YOUR CLAIM, I'M WATING!!!!!! I DID MINE, AND YOU HAVEN'T OBJECTED. This presumption is what introduces limitation, control, corruption, brain washing, theft, Fraud, Larceny, I mean I could go on and on, so presumption is EXTREMELY important.



You would not expatriate a citizen from his government against his will. The STRAWMAN's government is the UNITED STATES, codes and statutes are his laws, FRNs are his money, he gets his permission from his government--so with all this said, why in the world would you want to contract with this person who has no rights, no money, no government, no real laws and has you as a scape goat?



I wouldn't unjustly do anything to anybody against thier will, at least I hope I wouldn't. The STRAWMAN is mine!!! Because of Presumption man, it affects us all in a DIABOLICAL way, and even if they where'n t doing the presumption thing, it would still be mine, because they did an unconcious contract with my mother.



You do have a right to defend yourself but are you the one being attacked?



When it's Presumption, brainwashing, and people who don't know the difference is between the Strawman, and the Secured Party is, YEAH, I am being attacked, becauset I get the dung the STRAWMAN gets because the overwhelming majority of Mankind is brainwashed, So Yeah I am the one being attacked, though you and I seem to know the difference.



I think the redemption folks are defending someone who does not need to be defended and argue all the way to jail. I have yet to see someone go to jail using the law and not arguing. Kgod's previous 2 posts hit it on the head and Kgod has experienced the lunacy contained in the STRAWMAN UCC theory and reported it to us.



You take the Position of Secured Party, and let the burden of Proof fall on them, why defend the STRAWMAN, I don't give a care about it, but I do care for the Soveran man, and a way to defend the Soveran man is by the Secured Party.



Therefore, I can't fathom going into business or contracting with a person who is nothing but a liability.



Don't you want to seperate that Presumption? Why not contract with it? I have my suspicions that even the Secure Party is an it.



(look up the word person and you will be surprised by its numerous meanings)

About that, have you found anything interesting on that? Does the definition of a person claim to be a real man? Did you study it closely, and read between the lines? That would be interesting to find out.



-lithmus

Originally Posted by nralien

lithmus2



When asked the question are you SARAH JANE could you respond with "DEBTOR or Creditor?"



You can say yeah I am the DEBTOR, but I wouldn't recomend it,



I REAPEAT, DON'T DO THAT!!!!



because then they would definately sucku-up jurisdiction, I think the correct response would be, Sir, not your honor, because tell me something, are these guys operating defacto being honorable? but Sir or maam, are you addressing the Debor or the Secured Party? Never ever answer thier question, even if they threaten you with contempt of court, because your not in contempt by simply asking questions, and another thing think out your answers before you answer them, they can't get you for thinking out your answers, they will try to rush, and intimidate you, but don't let them do that. Hold the position in your head clearly that you are the Secured Party in this matter.



Yeah you can creditor, but I think for the sake of clairity it would be better to use Secured Party. That's just my opinion.



DEBTOR or Secured Party, Holder in due course, flesh-and-blood...?



If you know how to use holder in due Course, You see the whole thing is a Jurisdiction game with these guys, they are trying to gain jurisdiction, you have to know the Context with wich they are speaking, example the magistrate asks are you Sara Jane, that's what it seems like they are asking right,, but from thier context, because they are trying to suck-up or we can use the fancy word here "Usurp" man I HATE fancy words, and confusion, they are trying to suck-up jurisdiction, but from thier Context what they are really asking is are you SARA JANE "THE DEBTOR" of-course they never say that part about the debtor from what I've heard. But that's what they are really asking.



A thread in Court/Court Cites re: A4V & Discharge and Dishonor of an Indictment charlene states



"I beleive what I do, has a solid foundation, I filed a legal public notice, declarations,and lawful protest before I started any ucc filings. This protest is what has given me legal ground to capture my strawman and do all of my filings. This protest was signed by the Ohis SOS and also was sent to Washington D.C. and was signed by Department of State-United States Of America- Colin Powell."



Hmm why would they admit about there being a Strawman? I would stick with, and do things NON-JUDICIAL if at all possible. Ofcourse I don't know the situation with her case.



Maybe charlene could share a little more of the paperwork and the process to get these signatures from the SOS's?



That would be interesting, how bout it Charlene?



nralien

-lithmus

[Jerseee]

Lithmus2,



Good answers. But what will you do if you are not successful with UCC methods?



I know you will strive for success but what if you are railroaded using such tactics?



Furthermore, the STRAWMAN is not yours. You nor your mother created the STRAWMAN. Your mother created your True Name not your CORPORATE alter ego. Do you have proof that you own the STRAWMAN or do you have some type of title or certificate issued to you?



If you have a Certificate or Title of something issued to you, then you do not own it. The same principle applies to your vehicle.



So the STRAWMAN does not belong to you--it is a franchisee of the corporation. At birth you were unable to contract until a certain age, you were still in the minority and not of majority. There was no meeting of the minds so you could not have agreed to anything. Nor were you able to grant power of attorney to your mother to do so. This is why I state let them prove their claim.



And as far as you changing the terms of the contract--you are forgetting one important fact of contract law...there must be a meeting of the minds; mutual assent; agreement by both parties in order for there to be a valid contract. You need them to agree to the terms before you can default them into it. Have you an agreement by freewill or by force? Forcing them into default is a dishonorable tactic and very bad Joo Joo. Doing this may come back to bite you in the end.



You see Lithmus, playing with statutory things (their property) is not a very wise idea as you have not mastered their game. No one can master their game because its all crap!!! Truth prevails over all their unjst deeds--use truth and watch the victories pile up.



Bu this is just my recommendation of course--which everyone has. I try to remember this, "Advice: Wisemen don't need it and fools don't heed it."



That is not to imply you are wise or foolish--I just try to meet the middle ground.

I wish you well in your endeavor and hope to hear your success soon in our success stories section.

[logos]

Jerseee,

Placing a lien on the STRAWMAN via a UCC-FS is not trying to steal it or remove it from their jurisdiction, and there's nothing wrong with trying to reclaim what they owe us. Stealing it can't be done anyway, unless one were to steal the application for certificate of live birth, I think. The STRAWMAN is not a liability in and of itself. It's only a liability because of "their" use of it. I think it was created for our use, as well as theirs. We are free to use it to benefit ourselves, just as they use it for their benefit. They can justifiably say it's not their fault if we don't use it to our benefit or to defend ourselves when they have provided the means. If it was created for their use only, and used to harm you without providing you a way to benefit from it, I think such would be a big no-no and they are aware of that. It would be slavery and they are smart enough not to forcibly enslave us, but to get us to do it ourselves. They always provide ways out to balance the karmic books, so to speak. As for being railroaded using UCC stuff: people have been railroaded a lot more with the courts and their complex jurisdiction than via UCC stuff and one can get nailed just as easily with either one. I see nothing wrong with trying to eliminate having to deal with their courts. UCC/"redemption" stuff for me is about trying to use a different aspect of their system, just as one can use their codes, courts, etc.

[Jerseee]

Logos,



Nice position taken on the matter.



No one can contract with a newborn. You cannot be born into debt. Accepting or even trying to do business with something that is debt ridden does not make any sense.



You have remedy by law not by the good graces of the corporation. They are in debt up to their hairpieces and need help or a scape goat. I just can't understand why someone would want to claim an interest in a debt instead of using their remedy from the debt.



No one will ever have control over the STRAWMAN except the one who created him. They have more of an interest in the STRAWMAN than you will ever have. They are imdemnified. That is why they created it. So that the public can assume their debacle or their treachery. This is when folks get railroaded not from using law but from dabbling in something that is so corrupt and complex--you can't even get proper justice.



I understand where you are going with this but I have yet to lose using the law. It is not complicated and it is accessible. There is no secret knowledge or hidden accounts that are unverifiable---just pure knowledge that they cannot refute.



So it is a different game Logos possibly with the same results. But in the game of law--they don't change the rules in the middle of the game.

[logos]

Jerseee,

You make some valid points. Ideally, I'd like to bury the STRAWMAN like some people seem to do and not have to deal with any aspect of their wretched system. Truth when found, is simple. The whole UCC/redemption thing seems complex because people haven't distilled the knowledge and procedures down to their essences. When we do, I'm sure we'll see how simple it is to use and will be relieved to see it offers another way to minimize or eliminate altogether dealing with their courts. The whole court/code/law thing at one time seemed a lot more complex than it does now because our knowledge of it wasn't as advanced as it is now. I think it's the same with UCC/redemption as well. I think we should fully investigate all aspects of "the system". Only then will we have a better understanding of how or how not to interface with it, and how to make it work for us if we wish.

[Jerseee]

I'm on the same page with you in that aspect Logos.



The heartburn and heartache I get from this UCC redemption stuff is that when folks get in a jam--the experts are either too busy fighting their own battles or just not available to assist these souls that they have awakened with this theory.



That is why, the method that I developed gathers evidence for the people and I really try to make myself available for questions when folks use my method.



My method is simple, cost effective, and it will get results one way or another. It pits both corrupt agencies against themselves and forces both sides to give you evidence of each others mischief. My method also teaches honor and dishonor; grace and acceptance; and critical reading skills. True educational needs for the sovereign when dealing with these degenerates.



No one goes to jail using my method and so far we have been getting positive results for members and whomever else wants to learn. Now I know this sounds like "chest thumping" but I am proud and humbled by the folks whom have trusted me, my method, and sui juris.



I charge no fees, I try to be available for questions or mentoring, I demand that they give us SUCCESS STORIES, I call for them to help another, the method empowers them to be self-sufficient, the method gives them hope that the beast can be tamed and even defeated, they can teach someone else, and they learn. The most important aspect of this whole thing is that it is done using the law. Not STRAWMAN/UCC stuff.



Options in this war fo personal freedom are always a good thing Logos and you are right! But going to jail to try and get your personal freedom is not an option.



Those that have been jailed for using BoEs and such things should know that most State Constitutions say, "No one shall be imprisoned for a debt". I believe if they operated from the standpoint of the law first--they would have known this.

[4Integrity]

A FS should be evidence not something that has to be defended. JUDGES overseeing their equity court, are only looking for two things: (1) The Debtor and (2) The Creditor. If both are Creditors, then the JUDGE must determine who has the priority standing.



One must establish their Creditor position by asking the JUDGE for the record, that the court you are in is in fact a court of record. Once the judge answers then you state that "the JUDGE stated on record that this court is a court of record." Then just simply hand the bailif your FS. The JUDGE now has the proof that you are a creditor.



We are never any NAME that the JUDGES read off of paper. You must refute that always.



4Integrity

[KaosTheory]

Can someone tell me the link to TSN? Someone mentioned this site earlier but didn't give the link.



I am interested in learning more about securing a bank account from levy.



Thanks,



KT