Thoughts on the system

All have heard of Rice Mccleod or Winston Shrout and thier use of bonds. It appears to me to be a significant way to satisfy the courts and get what you want... if you can convince them of it.
I believe most of what the goverment has done over the past 250 years is legal. I say "legal", not necessarily lawful. I do believe that for every "fraud" we say we can prove, the goverment can through in a mixture or laws, statutes, codes, etc. enough to bewilder even the most learned patriot.
It has been my adage that research is fine and dandy, but what will it get you when you are faced with the courts? They have to prove nothing.... I mean who are they liable to? Some would say The Hauge in the Netherlands. Maybe. But what kind of undertaking would that entail. Probably something that very few of us could afford timewise or monetarily.
So what are we left with? Fear! Judges must fear something. I haven't figured that out yet though. In fact , in my courtroom experience I have yet to see a judge scared.
But I do know this... judges don't like being put on the spot. It angers them something fierce. The term "hot potato" is a judges best friend. He or she would be more than happy to sit and throw that potato back at you.
Conditional acceptanes? Acceptance for value? Bonds? Where has our successes been?
Recently, after months of calls and one repo attempt, Wells Fargo called me and left a msg. They said they were calling about a missing or stolen vehicle. Get this, 6 months ago I stopped paying on a vehicle that broke down more than it ran. I sent a BOE. Repo guys came one night and I told them I had not heard back on the paperwork I had sent Wells Fargo. I finally received an answer from WF stating that the document i sent was not acceptable... please send a check, money order or other form of negotiable instrument. Damn if I didn't think a BOE was a negotiable instrument. Mind you I left instructions with Wells Fargo on where the vehicle was and that they could have the damn thing. I am awaiting being served; it is inevitiable.
Well, I have looked back at posts from last year up til now and have seen some success stories. Think I may give one of those a try. What would it hurt?

[Jerseee]

Strawman,

Ask them to verify the debt. Documented verification. And ask them to provide you with a copy of the loan application. then at the same time, ask the CRAs to verify the debt and send all parties copies of your demands---to include the sherriff and add the Senator of your state to the mailing list so all can see. Then sit back and watch the dance of Wells Fargo.

I have asked Wells Fargo to verify the debt. They said because they were the originators of the loan that they were not bound under the Fair Debt Collections Act to validate anything. But I will send another. to them and the others as well. THanks

[kurte]

Take a look at Thom Schauf s bankhonesty.com. It will give some insight on how to handle them.

[Jerseee]

Good thought Kurte!& I forgot about him.& great site too!

Strawman,


I feel your frustration.& If you are like me and many others, you are so busy taking care of the rest of your life that you have a hard time fitting these studies into your schedule.& Then, just when you think that you have it figured out they throw something at you, that we don't understand, and then they look at you smuggly.


Anyway, this post is meant to be an encouragement.& We need to keep fighting, we need to be united.& I have been so encouraged by members of this forum, and I feel privilaged to be a part of these discussions.


Even if you feel that you are going to lose this battle, chalk it up to experience and keep studying.& Eventually we will win.& We are empowered, we are sovereign.


Later,


Sara-Jane

Originally Posted by Strawman

I have asked Wells Fargo to verify the debt. They said because they were the originators of the loan that they were not bound under the Fair Debt Collections Act to validate anything. But I will send another. to them and the others as well. THanks

&That is true.& If Wells Fargo did not sell the debt to a&third party debt collector then they don't have to verify the debt.&There is nothing to verify because the contract or agreement you signed with them&IS evidence of the debt. &

[Ice]

You might consider requesting to see the original contract... if they don't have&the original contract they are sol.


&

[Jerseee]

Tora,


Did you know that the original contract could be (and probably was) transformed into a negotiable instrument?&


Did you know that the application (once signed) funded the loan from the beginning?


It is little secrets like this that they do not want to let out.& Because if you knew that they were already paid--why would you pay them again with interest every month?


If they (wells fargo) can send a presentment they can also send proof that backs their presentment.& Hmmm wouldn't that shut someone up who asks for verification?


Wells fargo knows that they never loaned any of their assets.


Just a thought.....

Jerseee,


The *strawman* will never get the "original" contract and you'll never get proof&they turned it into a negotiable instrument.


It sounds like Strawman is going to&have to prove the contract was a fraud from the beginning because even the court isn't going buy that the contract is&a fraud without proof.&