negotiable Instruments are...

Originally Posted by Libertarian

What am I missing? How is a traffic ticket a promise to pay a specified sum to the bearer or holder?

By placing your John Henry or Susie Doe on the ticket, you are in effect promising to pay the holder (the traffic court) the sum specified on the ticket, else the sum specified by the traffic judge.

Jerry

[Shoonra]

Wrong. As there is no sum of money - either specified or hinted at - on the traffic ticket, nor a promise to pay anything, a traffic ticket is NOT a negotiable instrument. If it were, you could sell it to someone else. A traffic ticket is only a notice of a court date, and your presumed promise to show up. When you show up, you have the opportunity to dispute the ticket and, sometimes in those cases, the driver wins.

The ticket might say (at least for minor offenses like overtime parking) that you can opt not to appear but then you must send in the money for the fine. However, as you do not sign this, and may yet show up in court to dispute the ticket, this does not make it a negotiable instrument.

More often than not, at least here in Florida, a traffic citation will have on the reverse side, the amount owed and the citation of an alleged violation.

What makes an instrument "negotiable"? To my understanding, it is simply the fact that the instrument can be exchanged between persons. The officer signed it, you signed it (consented to its' content, nature, and release to a third party), you released it to the officer, and the officer transferred it to the custody of the traffic court... It was negotiable and was negotiated... it then has the possibility of further negotiation, once and when you appear at the traffic court.

Jerry

[mrg]

Originally Posted by jerrypitts

More often than not, at least here in Florida, a traffic citation will have on the reverse side, the amount owed and the citation of an alleged violation.

What makes an instrument "negotiable"? To my understanding, it is simply the fact that the instrument can be exchanged between persons. The officer signed it, you signed it (consented to its' content, nature, and release to a third party), you released it to the officer, and the officer transferred it to the custody of the traffic court... It was negotiable and was negotiated... it then has the possibility of further negotiation, once and when you appear at the traffic court.

Jerry

Yes, "negotiable" seems to indicate that there is some kind of negotiating going on, and if there is some kind of negotiating going on on the basis of a note (notice to appear) than something is negotiable, and since a future appearance is intangible, and a piece of paper with writing on it is tangible that the something being negotiated would appear to be the piece of paper with writing on it.

(I dare not quote any definition of the terms negotiate, or negotiable.)

But perhaps the paper with the writing and the signature, really does not indicate any negotiating.

But, on the other hand, if an offense, infraction, crime or whatever violation of law, that is alleged and iterated on the face of the presentation carries the distinct possibility of a fine valued in terms of negotiable currency, and the fine is somehow described in law, then the presentment does seem to have that value, in some manner, attached to it, and acts as a style of promissory note, in that one has tendered it back to the issuing agency, (and retained a receipt), as a promise to appear.

If no formal recognizance bond, or bail bond has been issued subsequent to the time of presentment, I would think that the presentment also serves as a recognizance bond, and a bond is or is not a negotiable instrument?

Taken from the Uniform Commercial Code.

§ 3-104. NEGOTIABLE INSTRUMENT.
(a) Except as provided in subsections (c) and (d), "negotiable instrument" means an unconditional promise <3-103.html> or order <3-103.html> to pay a fixed amount of money, with or without interest or other charges described in the promise or order, if it:
(1) is payable to bearer or to order <3-103.html> at the time it is issued <3-105.html> or first comes into possession of a holder;
(2) is payable on demand or at a definite time; and
(3) does not state any other undertaking or instruction by the person promising or ordering payment to do any act in addition to the payment of money, but the promise <3-103.html> or order <3-103.html> may contain (i) an undertaking or power to give, maintain, or protect collateral to secure payment, (ii) an authorization or power to the holder to confess judgment or realize on or dispose of collateral, or (iii) a waiver of the benefit of any law intended for the advantage or protection of an obligor.
(b) "Instrument" means a negotiable instrument <3-104.html>.
(c) An order <3-103.html> that meets all of the requirements of subsection (a), except paragraph (1), and otherwise falls within the definition of "check" in subsection (f) is a negotiable instrument <3-104.html> and a check <3-104.html>.
(d) A promise <3-103.html> or order <3-103.html> other than a check <3-104.html> is not an instrument <3-104.html> if, at the time it is issued <3-105.html> or first comes into possession of a holder, it contains a conspicuous statement, however expressed, to the effect that the promise or order is not negotiable or is not an instrument governed by this Article.
(e) An instrument <3-104.html> is a "note" if it is a promise <3-103.html> and is a "draft" if it is an order <3-103.html>. If an instrument falls within the definition of both "note" and "draft," a person entitled to enforce <3-301.html> the instrument may treat it as either.
(f) "Check" means (i) a draft <3-104.html>, other than a documentary draft, payable on demand and drawn on a bank or (ii) a cashier's check <3-104.html> or teller's check <3-104.html>. An instrument <3-104.html> may be a check <3-104.html> even though it is described on its face by another term, such as "money order."
(g) "Cashier's check" means a draft <3-104.html> with respect to which the drawer <3-103.html> and drawee <3-103.html> are the same bank or branches of the same bank.
(h) "Teller's check" means a draft <3-104.html> drawn by a bank (i) on another bank, or (ii) payable at or through a bank.
(i) "Traveler's check" means an instrument <3-104.html> that (i) is payable on demand, (ii) is drawn on or payable at or through a bank, (iii) is designated by the term "traveler's check" or by a substantially similar term, and (iv) requires, as a condition to payment, a countersignature by a person whose specimen signature appears on the instrument.
(j) "Certificate of deposit" means an instrument <3-104.html> containing an acknowledgment by a bank that a sum of money has been received by the bank and a promise <3-103.html> by the bank to repay the sum of money. A certificate of deposit is a note <3-104.html> of the bank.

§ 3-203. TRANSFER OF INSTRUMENT; RIGHTS ACQUIRED BY TRANSFER.
(a) An instrument <3-104.html> is transferred when it is delivered by a person other than its issue <3-105.html>r for the purpose of giving to the person receiving delivery the right to enforce the instrument.
(b) Transfer of an instrument <3-104.html>, whether or not the transfer is a negotiation <3-201.html>, vests in the transferee any right of the transferor to enforce the instrument, including any right as a holder in due course <3-302.html>, but the transferee cannot acquire rights of a holder in due course by a transfer, directly or indirectly, from a holder in due course if the transferee engaged in fraud or illegality affecting the instrument.
(c) Unless otherwise agreed, if an instrument <3-104.html> is transferred for value and the transferee does not become a holder because of lack of indorsement <3-204.html> by the transferor, the transferee has a specifically enforceable right to the unqualified indorsement of the transferor, but negotiation <3-201.html> of the instrument does not occur until the indorsement is made.
(d) If a transferor purports to transfer less than the entire instrument <3-104.html>, negotiation <3-201.html> of the instrument does not occur. The transferee obtains no rights under this Article and has only the rights of a partial assignee.

[Jerseee]

Originally Posted by Shoonra

You will find that all 50 states and the D of C have enacted the Uniform Commercial Code, sometimes with tiny changes, as state law.

You are correct Shoonra, however, case law trumps that. There is a commercial side and a non-commercial side, this is the case whether it is overt or covert---thus is the purpose of the Uniform Commercial Code--which is relatively new compared to the Law which is older than mankind itself.

Now go into your courtroom arguing from that standpoint and code based or you can stand on case law. Probably easier said than done, but get it on the record.

have fun

[Jerseee]

Then why is there a cost connected with this?

Originally Posted by Shoonra

Wrong. As there is no sum of money - either specified or hinted at - on the traffic ticket, nor a promise to pay anything, a traffic ticket is NOT a negotiable instrument. If it were, you could sell it to someone else. A traffic ticket is only a notice of a court date, and your presumed promise to show up. When you show up, you have the opportunity to dispute the ticket and, sometimes in those cases, the driver wins.

The ticket might say (at least for minor offenses like overtime parking) that you can opt not to appear but then you must send in the money for the fine. However, as you do not sign this, and may yet show up in court to dispute the ticket, this does not make it a negotiable instrument.

[kaptnjack]

this is a very good read...thanks

[Shoonra]

A promissory note, even if "certified", is not a negotiable instrument. It is an acknowledgement of debt and an admission that this debt is not yet paid. It does not fit the definition of a negotiable instrument.

As far as I can determine the IRS does not accept promissory notes (even if "certified" - whatever that may add to its lustre) nor bills of exchange.

[Jerseee]

Prove your claim. I can prove mine.

Originally Posted by Shoonra

A promissory note, even if "certified", is not a negotiable instrument. It is an acknowledgement of debt and an admission that this debt is not yet paid. It does not fit the definition of a negotiable instrument.

As far as I can determine the IRS does not accept promissory notes (even if "certified" - whatever that may add to its lustre) nor bills of exchange.