negotiable Instruments are...

DashBoy:



Ice nailed the subject of the BoE with the "routing number". This is the real answer! They do not want you/us to use this process.

We have used BoEs in the past but not anymore. If you do use the BoE, expect the FBI to comma knockin'...and they will, very soon. Just ask Barton Butz.

Please use another remedy and PLEASE STAY OUT OF THEIR SANDBOX!

[dashboy]

enslegis,

thanks for the advice! I plan on staying away from that and using Jersee's Lawful process of verifing the debt then tendering a CPN. I am still waiting on my payroll dept at work to remove my direct deposit so I don't have to worry about the bank taking my pay check. I am hoping they stay as hororable as I intend to be with them!



dashboy

[redpilltaker]

iamfreeur2:



Well, I am just wondering that if the Treasury Department has no problems with our remedy and a BoE...I guess the rest of the parties involved would/could be adminastratively estopped through the notorial process and evidence of their dishonor, right?



Could we do a FOIA request to the U.S. SoS or a congressman asking them to disclose any contracts, trusts or bonds that are attached to us?



And lastly, wouldn't the name and SSN be enough for a BoE? Shouldn't the banks and the Treasury know which account numbers to use between each other?



Still thinking....



RPT

[iamfreeru2]

RPT,



What we are doing at present is using the Letter Rogatory and Affidavit (NA) to request an investigation of Confidential Commercial Information (CCI). The submission of cci requires, under the Privacy Act, the appointment af an independent investigator to collect eveidence, for the purpose of rebutting the "arguable" cci. If it cannot be rebutted tha records must be changed to reflect settlement and closure.



Jack Smith had a seminar just the other night regarding this issue. When I get more on it I will share what I learn.



As I said the problem is not with the BoE or the Secretary of the Treasury, John Snow. It is with the taxing agencies, the banks, etc. The BoE that Barton used is perfectly lawful and is in line with UCC 3-104, Wtkin Negotiable Instruments and banking regs.



Enslegis' statement: "We have used BoEs in the past but not anymore. If you do use the BoE, expect the FBI to comma knockin'...and they will, very soon, Just ask BartonBuhtz." I have spoken to Barton about this and the use of BoEs has stopped not because of any illegality, but that other processes work better. Barton was raided last year by the IRS and FBI, not for doing anything wrong, but because some lady used the BoE to try to purchase a car and Barton's name came up. Barton continued to use the BoE until the perfection of the Silver Bond. The Silver Bond has the best backing possible, as it is backed and bonded with lawful money, Silver coin. What I am told is it has been successful in every instance when used in court proceedings.



The BoE needs more than a name and SSN, as it needs to be bonded. BoE is not like the CPN as it is used to pay (discharge) the debt (claim). The CPN is only a promise to pay upon verification of debt, as Ice and others have said many times.



By the way I entered the Silver Bond to the court yeaterday along with the MC claim AFV for settlement and closure. This was done under authority of the Constituion and the Bill of Rights. Now we will see what the other side does with it.



iamfreeru2

[redpilltaker]

Again, thanks to all for sharing info and experiences....



I will admit that my interest in BoE is based on limited knowledge...



But as stated right above...it discharges the debt...settling the account...that would be my preference....



In my mind, if I tender an instrument to them that they can redeem elsewhere to discharge the debt, that is the way I would go....these other promissary notes are promises to pay upon verification...right? So, the appearence of "good faith" is there...it is "colorable"...but again, I personally prefer to push them towards a zero on the books...not a "negative" loss that they would be writing off of their taxes...



Am I worried about something that I shouldn't? While reading "The Creature from Jeckyl Island"...I would like to kinda throw a wrench into their money machine...at least keep a liability from "floating" around out there....



Will be here...



RPT



P.S. Any students of Jack Smith from around Seattle out there that may be willing to mentor me?

[Ice]

RPT,



The reason that a "promise to pay (CPN) upon verification" is used is because THEY WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO VERIFY THE ALLEGED DEBT!



If they cannot verify the alleged debt THEY HAVE NO CLAIM. If someone cannot prove their claim against you then they get nothing. So, a promise to pay upon verification is the smartest way to go.



When you look at it from that perspective -- it's pretty simple.



Ice

[redpilltaker]

Thanks Ice,



I understand how, promising to pay upon verification and already knowing the answer, would work/works. It is straight forward.



Do you think that (not that I would bring down the heat by squeeling to the IRS) the "lender" would write off the "debt" or would they actually "use our exemption" and balance the books and accounting? Or do they cry about a "loss" for an uncollectable debt?



I guess it doesn't matter...like I said before...I not everyone wants the redpill...but I would like to keep the money machine from saddling them up with more liabilities because of me if possible....



Will continue to study....



Thanks.

[Ice]

The debt collector must bite the bullet and take the loss if they cannot prove their claim.



It is that simple.

[wirlwind]

Over amonth agao I dsicharged a state tax claim with a VOD and CPN. I got a letter back fromt the state tax people saying that they would notifiy me when our hearing had been scheduled and they would tell us their decision then. They said notification of the hearing could be 30-60 days. It has been over a month. They said that it wasn't necessary to respond to the letter. It also wasn't a form letter. Now, since I have tendered the CPN, do I consider the debt discharged? If I do hear from them, what should I say to them? They have never validated the debt, and they haven't returned my CPN. Any ideas would be appreciated.



Thanks, Donna

[Ice]

Did you give them a time frame for validation/verification of the debt?



See the Affidavit of Default for more clues (located in the download section).