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Originally Posted by bogeyman
I had seen this before- SD and read the artical behind it. If memory serves me correctly - this is fraud because it ( the Draft) is drawn on an account that doesn't exist.
Now I do think you can do a Draft on SIGHT. That is a draft ( check) on a good account ( your checking account) for $XXXX.XX .
I am looking at this right now to clear some CC Debt. I will give them the Draft to present to the bank- BUT only if certain critera are met. Namely- Show that the account wasn't funded by my autograph, Certified copy of the instant account inthe all CAPS name. The Soverigns name, what the bank has at risk- and the bookkeeping entries to back it up, Ect.
They have 90 days from the day of receipt to "Cash" it on sight of the bank- provided thay can come up with the goods I asked for. If they don't the game plan is to reject everything else they send as they were tendered payment and refused. I forget what part of the UCC covered it- but it said- The debt is discharged the moment payment is tendered-even if it is rejected,
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Originally Posted by bogeyman
Thanks for that information- I figured it's agood idea to post the intent here and see what holes get blown in it..... before proceeding. I will look into that, The other concern I had was this. Could the draft possibly be seen as a fraudulent UCC document creating Debt- when that is reserved for the FED RES banks.
Hmm- well this is why we "talk"
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I believe your comment in bold above to be correct. Check the reference to the montana freemen below.
Not trying to blow holes in anything. There are some here that have a great deal more knowledge than I so I may be full of excrement, but often people are misunderstanding the historical purpose of these instruments and therefore getting into trouble. (My research indicates they were used to facilitate trade across long distances without having travel to walk into the store or warehouse etc., and tender gold/silver or other form of payment or exchange. Countries & Government do this today and some of these things are cleared through the Fed in N.Y. They make a ledger entry and then some guys in the vault actually move bars of gold from one countries "vault space" to the other.)
I have found they (Sight Drafts) are still in use today primarily in the import export business. You can also find some old ones which were used in rail transport in America almost exclusively until the 1930's.
This was a method to secure and preserve ownership of goods until delivery and transfer. There may be a bill of lading or something shipped with the goods that documents ownership which would then be transferred to the buyer upon receipt and acceptance of the goods and in exchange a sight draft would issue. (The bill of exchange is the opposite in that the buyer would issue a BOE before the goods arrived or even after as a BOE can be used as an instrument of credit).
There has been much debate and controversy over what these things (Sight Drafts) are, how to use then, and how to create your own, for instance a few years ago some folks calling themselves the Montana Freemen got into some hot water over these things. They were making their own, claiming to be secured by their property or something, and claiming they could redemmed at the post office. If they had some way of tendering Gold, Silver, or some form of commmonly accepted currency when they were to be cleared and presented back to them for acceptance and payment then there would not have been a problem, however there was no way anyone could collect on these pieces of paper and therefore they were actually creating fradulent instruments of exchange.
A Bill of exchange is similar but it is a promisary note or written order by one person to pay another a specific sum on a specific date sometime in the future. If it is drawn on a bank it is called a bank draft, if it is drawn on another party it is called a trade draft. If it is drawn on a private party then the risk for someone accepting this as payment is dependent upon the creditworthiness of the drawer. If you're going to create your own then one better darned well have a funded account at an institution that can be drawn where the BOE can "clear", otherwise you're just begging for a charge of committing some form of financial fraud.
The ironic thing about this whole system is that governments and banking institutions create worthless paper all day long like the freemen did (Only on a larger scale) and we use it for money . . . FRN's, Euro, Yen, etc. because not one can be presented to the issuer of these instruments for redemption by the bearer for anything of value other than another piece of paper.
Oh, if the draft is drawn on a funded account then why would this be considered fradulent? The Fraud is involved in that many get into trouble by trying to issue their own on accounts that do not exist.
I should change my tag line to "Fractional Reserve Banking, Easier than operating a printing press".
