UCC - Really Necessary?

[wirlwind]

Jersee,


Thanks for the input.& I'm going to proceed with my CN notice.& I'm probably going to go ahead and file my UCC1 because there might be an occasion when I might need it.&


I hope that you will share your Citizenship Status(?) Notice when you finish drafting it.& That route seems less confrontational, and&I have wondered why it wouldn't work as well as the CN notice.


Thanks,


Wirlwind.

[rushpat]

The original logic behind a UCC-1 was to establish a first lien against the all caps tradename. Remember, the rules of commerce is that the first with the perfected lien must be satisfied before others can go about their collection.

If you have perfected (through a security agreement signed by both parties) and on file with either the SoS in your state (others use the Superior Court Clerk like Georgia), then all other liens must stand in line.

The tricky part is getting places like banks and employers to take notice of this, in case the tax man or attorneys come knocking.

[Ice]

The reason that I am not so thrilled with the process is simple:& THEY IGNORE IT!!


But, I will not discourage anyone from filing a UCC FS against their STRAWMAN... just in case they are one of those that would have success with its use.


It is a bit more difficult for 'them' to ignore Supreme Court decisions than it is "code" of any kind... and that is the process that I lean towards... hammer 'em with law they cannot work their way around.


&

[dochand]

Hey Ice!

Haven't talked with you for some time. Always good to have your input. I believe I understand your opinion regarding UCC. What about the CN?

Do you believe in it's value?

What benefit(s) does it give one?

Where/when is it most commonly used?

When publishing, can one utilize the sample given at Zephyr's website and just insert one's own particulars (name) or is there another, maybe better, template to use?

Gratitude for your input,

Doc

P.S. Shoulda known you'd be an 'Ice' drink kinda guy

my two cents...


i don't think there is any one person right now who fully comprehends the whole UCC-1 filing gambit.& reason:& too many differing opinions on "how it's done" and what it's uses are.& i've learned that over several years.


i agree with jerseee - it is for commercial purposes only as a notification of your assertion of control of your strawman.& difficulty is enforcing it.& i see no harm in filing it as only you is really affected by that filing.& be careful when listing "assets" that have current liens and so on, as the courts may throw the filing out as frivolous.& at least, i've heard of cases where lawyers were petitioning/suing for such.& i don't know the outcomes nor particulars but have read of such things.


i also agree with Ice - hit 'em with law they can't dispute:& supreme court decisions, holdings, etc.& also, their own code.


as for the copyright notice, i haven't seen any successful enforcement of infringment, so i'm not sure it works.& public notice or not - the courts are where the proof is so to speak.& again, i can't hurt to publish one as you are the only party affected by such notice.


as i go along here, bottom line is, if you can 1) not argue, and 2) present decisions to which there is no rebuttal, thus working in their world, you will win as long as you are right & honorable.


randy - your case cite.& notice that the judge's opinion was the judicial intervention was not required to issue a "Notice."& as you stated, however, there must be judicial intervention to factually have a lien.& go that route with it and i think you've got it.& a "Notice" is not a lien afa i know.


also notice the term apply - the commissioner must apply for the assessed taxes.& how can you apply (make application)&for something that is mandatory?& at least that's how i've thought it was supposed to work...


jon

[quote= jmunson]


...as i go along here, bottom line is, if you can 1) not argue, and 2) present decisions to which there is no rebuttal, thus working in their world, you will win as long as you are right & honorable.


Hi, Jon....


I agree. I think it's winning through attrition. (Okay. And lots of time spent writing letters and lots of postage...)


randy - your case cite.& notice that the judge's opinion was the judicial intervention was not required to issue a "Notice."& as you stated, however, there must be judicial intervention to factually have a lien.& go that route with it and i think you've got it.& a "Notice" is not a lien afa i know.


Absolutely right. But the judge, and everyone in court THAT day, "let" the judge get away with citing just ONE statute which clearly is NOT "severable." It can NOT be read, and applied, separate and apart from the other statutes to which it refers. But he pulled it off! (Of course, agents and judges do it all the time and get away with it....)


also notice the term apply - the commissioner must apply for the assessed taxes.& how can you apply (make application)&for something that is mandatory?& at least that's how i've thought it was supposed to work...


Four years and eighteen letters later, and I'm still asking the agents at VA dept of Tax the same thing, over and over and over....


Randy

randy,


if the statutes show otherwise, then the "decision" should be appealed.


again, you wouldn't be arguing, but simply seeking clarification as to what is & what isn't in order to effect remedy.


'tis funny how this coincides with the congress/supreme court view on taxes - congress says its a judicial thing, supreme court says its a legislative thing...


but we digress from the topic...


jon

Tandy,
If the judgment violates the law it is void. Vacating is the next step.


Jim

Hi, Jim...


Yeah, I don't know what happened, if anything, after that particular case. It's just an excellent example of how convulted this mess is and, especially and, how the lawyers...oh, never mind.


I'll betcha, however, that the parties involved went along with the decision and that was that. After all, it wasn't anything more than taking someone's money for the State. So that must be a good thing.


God, I'm cranky today. Need some fried 'taters.....


Randy

Ranry,
Sounds like you may need a hydraulic sandwitch or some marinated olives.


Jim