UCC11 & Uniform Federal Lien Registration Act

[lchesson]

UNIFORM FEDERAL LIEN REGISTRATION ACT found here: http://www.law.upenn.edu/bll/ulc/fna...s/uflraa82.htm

A pertinant part for this discussion being...

SECTION 4. [Duties of Filing Officer.]

(a) If a notice of federal lien, a refiling of a notice of federal lien, or a notice of revocation of any certificate described in subsection (b) is presented to a filing officer who is:

(1) the Secretary of State, he shall cause the notice to be marked, held, and indexed in accordance with the provisions of [Section 9-403(4),] of the Uniform Commercial Code as if the notice were a financing statement within the meaning of that Code; (emphasis added)

It appears that this act attempts to blend Tax Liens into comformity with State UCC laws. The words "as if" used above used to cloak a NOL as an actual financing statement within the meaning of UCC. BUT, if a UCC11 search was done with the State, how could a NOL appear as a financing statement? Calling a Lien a Financing Statement does not make it one.

Can anyone comment about this?

This also brings another question to mind, which is related to by 'beginner' status in understanding UCC.

Does not a 'Debtor' have to give permission to have a financing statement issued?
___________________

Now the 2nd part. Looking at UFLRA again:

SECTION 4. [Duties of Filing Officer.]

(b) If a certificate of release, non-attachment, discharge, or subordination of any lien is presented to the Secretary of State for filing he shall:

2) cause a certificate of discharge or subordination to be marked, held, and indexed as if the certificate were a release of collateral within the meaning of the Uniform Commercial Code.

and in the comments:

1. It is the practice of the Internal Revenue Service to regard a "certificate of discharge" as primarily referable to specific pieces of property, so a certificate of discharge corresponds to a release under Section 9-406 of the Uniform Commercial Code. A "certificate of release" in tax practice is equivalent to a "termination statement" in Section 9-404 of the Uniform Commercial Code in the sense that it is a general statement applicable to all property or types of property referred to in the termination statement.

In another thread about Tax Liens, it was discussed how one can issue a Termination Statement in their own name. Is this correct?

This also brings up the issue of the filing of NOL's with a State's County recorder. If a UCC11 search shows no FS on file, can one terminate the NOL with a UCC3 with the County or with the State?

In summary, it does not appear that tax thugs properly use UCC to record NOL's. Therefore, UCC remedy would be at have however evasive it seems at the moment.

Thank you all very much.

[lchesson]

What if I were able to get a UCC1 filed with me as the SP, and filed it in my County where the NOL is filed. Would that effectively stop any possible attempt to forclose and satisfy the NOL?

Then, if I understand the UCC1 correctly, I could not sell my property to another buyer until my UCC1 lien is removed of satisfied. Would the fed NOL then re-surface as an encumberance from it's original filing?

[logos]

At least for real estate, the UCC1 doesn't encumber a property, AFAIK. It is merely notice that there is an encumberance.

[logos]

I should have clarified my previous post as I've had some experience with this issue.

Prior to foreclosure, I had filed a UCC1 on my condo on both the town and state level. My former roommate's mother was the real estate agent who handled the condo's post-foreclosure sale to another party. He told me she told him there was a problem with my old condo--something was up with the title and that they were investigating it. He told her I'd filed a UCC1 on the property. "Oh, great", she said.

In the end, it delayed the condo's sale but did not halt it.

I think what happened is when they performed their standard title-check, upon finding the UCC1 they checked to see if there was also a lien filed. Not finding one, the sale proceeded. I think an actual lien must be filed to encumber real estate (just like the Security Agreement is what binds the STRAWMAN rather than the subsequently filed UCC1) otherwise a mere notice such as a UCC1 may be insufficient. I think such a lien can be tied to the Security Agreement. For all I know, my UCC1 might still be in the records with the new possessor living happily ever after.

The flip side to this is the "Notice of Lien" filed by the IRS and lawyers. The town clerks and other system operatives treat these as liens--well, at least they do the former--even though they aren't, AFAIK. So either (a) UCC1's and NoL's really do encumber property, or (b) they don't.

Either way a double standard seems to be applied where "their" notices lien a property while ours don't.

[weishaupt1776]

Know what would be cool?

Have a contrived labor dispute between you and someone in which the tradesperson attempts to file a notice of lien and enforce it as a lien and then have him bring it to court to get it "right outta the horses mouth" !