Acceptance for value

[Ice]

I am here to discuss the Law and court procedure... not redemption processes which are sold and have not demonstrated any value to those that have used them.



I'm still waiting for PROOF that any of those processes work. All we ever hear are stories about some guy or some lady that did what so-and-so said to and no proof of success is offered.



This stuff has been around for a long, long time ... and there should be hundreds, if not thousands, of success stories DOCUMENTED and easily accessed by those researching the processes. BUT NONE CAN BE FOUND.



I have never stopped anyone from doing what they want... nor have I prohibited anyone from researching what they want. As I said in my above post: "Buy it if you want to."



I will assist people with lawful activity... not redemption processes that don't work and are sold for a profit by the so-called "experts" ( some of which have "default" judgments against them simply because they did not follow court procedure ).



Wonder all you want. My mission is clear to the Members. TAKE BACK OUR COURTS AND COUNTRY. You can't do that by avoiding the court and your responsibility to govern as THE PEOPLE.



Ice



P.S. I don't expect anyone to believe anything just because I "said so"... do the research and find those successes to prove the process. Don't take anyones word for anything... not even mine.

[iamfreeru2]

Ice,



You have no proof that Redemption processes do not work. Just because there is no record does not mean something does not work. Why can't you believe that the reason it is not on the record may be because it is not wanted on the record. There are more wins than you think there are. Just because you have not seen them does not mean they do not exist. Why is it that some court cases are sealed from public view. Could it be there is too much truth in them? Ever thought about that? Hmm.





iamfreeru2

[Ice]

NOT ONE PERSON WILL SHARE THE DOCUMENTATION OF THEIR WIN ... GO AHEAD... ASK ONE OF THE EXPERTS TO DEMONSTRATE A TRUE WIN. HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE FULL TITLE TO YOUR HOME?? CAN THE DOCUMENTS BE SEEN AT YOUR COUNTY COURT HOUSE??



I CAN'T FIND ANYONE THAT WILL SHARE THEIR DOCUMENTATION TO PROVE THEIR WIN. NOT ONE.



SOMEONE HAS TO HAVE SOME KINDA DOCUMENTATION OF A WIN... SOME KINDA PROOF THAT IT WORKS.



If there isn't any proof that it works -- then it don't. That's why people come to me when the A4V doesn't get the collectors off their back. And I've found better methods to deal with such within the Law.



Do you honestly think that this site is about "redemption"? I don't think so. Have you checked out all the LAW that Sui Juris has posted for the benefit of the Members? Note: I said LAW -- NOT REDEMPTION. As long as folks bring Redemption to this forum, I will speak my mind about it. It is a fraud and a way for someone else to extract wealth from the people with promises -- and nothing but promises. (Yeah, it works man!!... Just check out what billybob's uncle's cousin's girlfriend's neighbors Aunt did when she listened to A4VEXPERT).



Oh yeah... there are probably a lot more "stories" of success that are going around that I know nothing about... because I ain't been paying any attention to that "redemption" stuff for a long long while.



But here's something to think about. Working in the so-called "private" to handle your own personal interests really doesn't help anyone ... does it? I think it's kinda "selfish" and "greedy". On the other hand, you have people that will attack issues in the court room -- in the "Public" -- and when they have a win it can then be utilized by ALL.



I suppose most of the folks that do the redemption processes would share their success with others and assist them... for a fee. All it would take is one success (actually, the Appearance of a success) to make a guys name a household word... and then he's off and running, doing seminars, showing his stuff, collecting money for his book that he will write... yeah yeah yeah....



Like I said earlier...



Good Luck.

[iamfreeru2]

Ice,



I help people all the time and there are a few on this site that have asked for my help. I do not charge for helping someone and there are many others out there that do the same without cost. There are many in the study group I use that are the same. Charging is not what I am about. It is helping one to freedom is what I am about. You are right there are those that charge for their services and too much at that. I agree with you 100% about those that charge for helping.



If you want me off this site I will gladly leave. It is better than having to listen to BS. Unlike you I am not about taring people down either, or their methods. I am having success and you tell me what I do is crap and does not work. Tell that to the people that I have helped. Say what you will.



I have had it with this site. There are a few that know how to contact me. Feel free to do so and I will continue to share with you, but I am out of here. I am up to my ears with Ice's BS. I thought this would be a place I could come and share with people my successes and help some people. I was wrong and will continue to be chastised. I said once before I was leaving and I should have stayed off the site and not come back. I was asked by Jerseee not to leave, as I might be able to help some people.



Ice Has made it clear I am not wanted here nor is Redemption. He has made it perfectly clear this site is for those that use the LAW. Go for it. This is my last post on this site and I will not return.



iamfreeru2

We have used Conditional Acceptance for Value on several occasions, all with WINS. We have helped others using the CA4V process and have hereby helped with discharging $289,000.00 debt.

We have never seen the inside of a tribunal while using this process, as we use it correctly. We are now in the process of filing a Tort Claim against a company(by using the CA4V) in the amount of $3,135,000.00. This is not to say that a collection will take effect through the Tort; but, we can damn well tell you that the process works if done correctly.

Therefore, whatever works for one may not work for another. We've been at this for a while now and we use WHATEVER WORKS on a case by case basis. We encourage all to stay out of "their sandbox" at all costs! This process is not difficult to learn but one has to be meticulous to details and do the follow-ups with precision.

If one cares to learn the process via a workshop, do what we have done and pay the bux to learn. We highly recommend a Victoria-Joy or Jack Smith workshop for they teach by quality material.

We have paid out the wazoo to become educated using different processes and we do not begrudge doing so. We suggest that the more one knows about the different areas of law, the more apt one is the make the right decision via selection of process.

We always remain in honor and we suggest that all do the same.

FREE YOUR MINDS AND OBSERVE THE BIG PICTURE! This way you will always choose the correct procedure and see that some men who wear the black dresses prefer form over content and always the correct procedural methods.

Until you have studied with the original FreeMen, you cannot know the difference.

Respectfully submitted.

[Ice]

iamfreeru2,



Eventually you will awaken. You state that you will not be back... but you will. Sooner or later you will come to the knowledge that the path we are on is the only path that will return the wealth of this nation back to the people... and the only way to take back our courts and government.



Many, many people have fallen into the redemption pit which is promoted as the "Sovereign" thing to do... or the "Christian" thing to do. Using God to sell redemption processes is like brain washing. How would you feel to step outside of that process?... maybe like you were turning your back on your God??... maybe "sinning"?... flirting with the devil?... playing in the devils backyard? The Book states that not even the gates of hell cannot withstand... oh, but wait a minute... that wouldn't matter because we wouldn't ever want to approach the gates of hell to take on the devil... would we?



Like Hell! I'm marching right up to the gates... and I'm gonna give Luci a black eye!



I don't want you to leave the site... I want you to open your eyes to what the founding fathers of this great land gave to us... that our fathers and grand fathers and great grandfathers have let slip away because of their irresponsibility. Open your eyes to the Freedom those men put their life on the line for. The GOD GIVEN RIGHTS those men sought to secure and protect for ALL MEN.



And if anyone believes that God had a hand in the formation of this nation... remember that this nation came to be via a Violent Revolution... so God is not beyond allowing an argument, a battle or a war.



What successes are there that we can see from "redemption"? Nothing but stories. Nothing concrete. But there are successful court cases. We even have a few in the download section. The Law works.



Note how the use of the Law has helped so many with the CRA's and collectors. Just wait until these folks figure out they can actually take on the attorney collectors with an opportunity for settlement. (If you go by the law of the Book you will have to agree that an attorney that attempts to swindle you should have done to him what he tried to do to you... it's in the law of the Book.)



With the mortgage situation... it is very different. Court is a last resort. But redemption processes are not the answer. If anything, they are a hindrance to true settlement and closure (to use your words). How would you like an offer to null and void the balance... and maybe even put some money into your pocket... just to keep you out of the court and keep you quiet?? Sounds a lot better than all that work you're doing with redemption... which I believe will only make things worse.



I know it has got to hurt when anyone loses their home. And that is exactly what I want to make sure doesn't happen. Redemption is asking people to put their homes and finances on the line for unproven processes. And more tales of horror than successes are the result.



And if any of the so-called experts want to back up their claims... we have a forum, a download section and front page story section that they can put their bona fide successes in... including ALL DOCUMENTATION which demonstrates proof of success. I wonder how many of those experts are using credit cards and checkbooks... hmmm... still messing with the banks?



I am entitled to my opinions as well as my skepticism. I've moved on from being a skeptic... I've seen too much hurt because of those processes. And I've not seen one expert jump in to make sure the mess got cleaned up... they don't "guarantee" anything... they just provide information... use it at your own risk. (But when there is a loss it will always be the fault of the user... they didn't do it right ... give me a break!!... I'm tired of hearing that excuse!!).



The founders of this nation did not make the sacrifices they did so that we could just walk away from our government and courts -- handing them over to a would be "Master". They did not sacrifice so that we could live in slavery.



What sacrifice is required of us now?... for ALL MEN... and not just ourselves? Will it not require us to do things in the Public?... in the Light of Day?



Think on these things.



Ice

[Jerseee]

This is a sad situation.



I really don't understand why redemption gurus are not pushing the rules and procedures of the court--JUST IN CASE some of their followers end up there. THis is the responsible thing to do if you are going to provide a service for $$$. Arm your customers properly and with the most information and different avenues as well.



No one here is forced to abide by the law--they are encouraged. Just as no one here is forced to listen to redemption--but it is offered and even encouraged by others (not me).



The major problem is a stark reality that you should not have to pay for freedom. You should not have to do things in secret to catch break while your fellow man suffers unknowing of these things--because they are not public nor lawful.



Why is it so hard to get our nation to take back the courts and congress? The power lies within us all. But doing things that are infringing on others to accomplish the overall objective of personal freedom is treasonous. Using this UCC redemption is infringing on the rights of another knowingly--therefore, its criminal. The UCC redemption crowd knows that the Fed is unlawful and oppressive--but they choose to ignore that and play the UCC game instead of the "take them to court game."



It is treasonous to keep using FRNs and/or getting private consideration because the powers that be do not want to let the rest of the nation in on the secret war against them economically. Alot of things would be solved if we just took their asses to court and use the laws that are on the books. This is what our nation was founded on--not the UCC! The Constution does not mention the UCC but, it does mention the courts and its duties to the nation.

It mentions the laws and not the codes. It mentions government's duties not the IRS. I mentions congress's duties not the Federal Reserve or UCC. WAKE UP PEOPLE! OUR FOREFATHER'S SAW THIS AND KNEW OF IT FROM EUROPE---THIS IS WHY THEY FOUGHT AGAINST THIS SYTEM OF CREDIT AND FIAT MONEY!



THe UCC has no allegiance to America or its inhabitants. Using this stuff is treason against the people. Because it is trading on their faith of a fiat currency and not a lawful one. ANd the sad part is---is that the gurus know this. Anytime you take advantage of a person because they do not know the truth about everything, is dishonest to say the least and sinful to say the most.



The redemption crowd knows that lawyers and judges are constantly on the take and to agree with them in private through the UCC is criminal. Bottom line it is criminal--there is no way around that fact. If you know that FRNs and their equivalent is unlawful currency and you know that the Federal Reserve is a private organization leading the way in the economic destruction of the people--then receiving a reprieve from the very entity that is assailing our nation is TREASONOUS. Cooperating with them to perpetuate the fraud in private, deserves death, not a success story by avoiding being harrassed to fork over unlawful currency in the first place. The only time you should pay out the wazoo for knowledge is by spending time in the library--not spending FRNs to gurus who tell you down with FRNs and then accept them for their information.



You are not getting redemption through the law. You are getting redemption through the UCC. The UCC is not law--it is their law. It is how they operate--in private. with undocumented wins. Keeping the public unknowing by coming to terms with individuals who have somewhat grasped the idea of their treachery. Why do you think they keep changing the UCC periodically? To keep you guessing--to catch you in their web of deceit and to remain unfocused on what you should be focusing on....GETTING THEM THE HELL OUT OF OUR LIVES AND OUR COUNTRY!!!



UCC redemptionists continued cooperation with private banking is crippling our nation even further. I ask this followership of UCC redemption--why pay a guru with FRNs or its equivalent--when you know no one can demand payment in that form?



iamfree, it is sad to see you go but, our position remains unchanged-----practice the UCC stuff at your own risk but, use the law for your true redemption. There is nothing corrupt about adjudicated case law that is public knowledge that anyone can use to stop fraudulent unlawful practices against them.



god speed man and to all UCC redemption followers--you have the right to choose---let's just hope you chose right.

[redpilltaker]

Sorry, double post...see below...

[redpilltaker]

Wow....lotsa emotion here....



Anyway, I think I have said this before...I still feel it applies.....



Jerseee, (and all of the black letter bunch... )



I understand your position...and I don't even disagree with it, necessarily....it just seems futile....



First the technical stuff...presuming the A4V and UCC FS stuff works(bear with me):



1) If "debts" are closed and settled...how is this treasonous? Not exactly adding to the "national debt", unless the "lenders" take some kind of tax write-off for the "lost income"....(which of course, is not far fetched even if the "lender" lost a lawsuit to quiet title)



2) This process would actually increase the value of each and every FRN out there, so that helps doesn't it?!(I am laughing, but according to the FED itself... )



3) MOST Americans are unaware that "sealled" documents, filings, records and court proceedings even exist in our "open and honest" country...Come on, there can be NO surprise that the system would avoid too much truth...The statements concerning victories via a Redemption method are a bit presumptive...I myself will be examining every potential approach before trying anything for myself...





4) If our lives are full of lies, and not all of us see it ALREADY....the system is too big to tackle, overthrow or reform...(pessimism, realism, fatalism...I still don't know why I can't identify the bias)



Now some theology discussion:



1) There is going to be a One World Government....a lot of folks say that it is already here....



2) Those who have the gold...watch this close MAKE THE RULES!!(in the world...the earth...our first stop)



3) No Jesus, NO PEACE!!



4) I constantly pray that the Lord return NOW...(I don't like this ride after taking the red pill.....).



I have not been able to resolve all of these issues to date.



I feel like the technical side makes sense of course, but I feel like I am being awfully idealistic and a bit naieve(spelling?)...but riled up, aggressive, and want to join arms with like minded brothers and sisters and take our country back...."Charge!! We'll get you you BASTARDS!!"



Then...I remember that the great deciever will sit upon a throne and declare himself God...(this is of course, after he has centralized the global power, money, and military around him...under his global government)....and I already know that THE BIG GUY UPSTAIRS isn't going to tolerate that one bit!!



So, all of the blind fools will be thinking that they were "succeeding" all the way through until the end when I believe most will be shocked at their guilt when they are judged by the Father...



Those of us who are already thankful for our Deliverer's sacrifice (just because we have glimpsed our guilt and are shameful, thankful and relieved...all at the same time) just try to step aside and let our Redeemer live through us....



Please consider that Joseph was successful whilest in Egypt after being SOLD by his own brothers...he helped MANY people without subvertting or toppling the pharoh...he treated others as he wished to be treated...



It is sad...I can feel the feelings of leaving our countrymen where we find them and terrrible that seems, but you know what? Unfortunately....but the infinitely most derserving and holy judgement possible...we will all be judged. I feel sad that something more precious than their country may be lost if they stay asleep as well.



And it is also sad that the majority will suffer for eternity...distant from our Father...God's Word isn't saying very much if it doesn't tell us, angle after and angle, reason after reason...to store up our treasures in Heaven...not on this Earth....



Now...the Redemption "scheme"(no offense to anyone) makes more sense when one just takes a practical approach to both the technical and theological issues...it appears to be the clearest explanation to date of why things are the way they are...



Why will I be fined/charged/arrested for a pistol sticking out of my back pocket while walking downtown...just walking back to my car with my wife...just trying to MAKE IT to my car with my wife, with some sense of personal safety...because I am a bad person trying to protect himself and his? because other people don't like to see a manifestation of deadly force that upfront and personal? Would they feel better if I carried a baseball bat or a crow bar?



I feel like that if the thieves got such a hold around this nation's neck on the 2nd Amendmant...all is already lost....I don't see a bigger example of an overt "power-grab" then restricting our right of self protection....if that won't wake up the country...nothing will...



Yes I agree that this sort of freedom/knowledge ought to come freely through concern for one another...but at the same time, can the people who help people really rely on the people they are helping to provide for their needs...so I will reserve judgment on "paytriots" because they MAY be greedy or they MAY NOT be greedy...but I give FRN's as I see fit...they aren't stealling it from us, we are giving it ignorantly, yes, but on our own accord...we each have our own "issues".



My biggest fear, in considering any of this information to be a mechanism to access a life that I want while I'm here, is that I fear my hope and longing for something different will override my common sense...what a sad state this old world is in...my hope frustratingly screams that "I see holes in the fabric of my country/government all over the place..."



Please everyone...keep an open mind, we have all already gone through the shock of finally perceiving the potential enormity/depth of this great deception that we call the Land of the Free.



I can't for the life of me remember how much time passed as Alice fell down the rabbit hole before she got to the end...LOL...but it sure is a deep hole...



His Peace be with you!



RPT

[Jerseee]

RPT,



Good position.



Your statements 1 thru 4....if this is what you believe to be lawful money--then you deserve all the benefits and ptifalls of thier system. They are trading on the ignorance of the people as the people are honest and forthright but, their system encourages thievery and all other sins man normally tries to avoid. When you extinguish hope; you ignite desparation. when this occurs then your fellow man loses morality as survival instincts kick in and civility ceases.



Now for your theological references:



Call me when the pity party is over. Being passive will do nothing to stop this beast. If you want to be the decoy while I slay him from behind then so be it--but you will have to defend yourself sooner or later and now is the time to prepare.



Is 70+ years of oppression not enough? Are Hundreds of years plotting and planning this is not enough? When will it be enough? When the whips are hitting your back and your children's backs?



I understand your position but if you do not see how this is treasonous against the average man who believes that he is providing an honest living for his family and people with UCC redemption knowledge are trading on that man's faith of the currency--when they know the truth.....then that is criminal my friend.



If I know a trick to separate you from your wealth or use your faith the gain an advantage over you--that is not only dishonest--it is criminal. It is theft by deception. To get you to unwittingly agree to a contract without full disclosure, in a sin sick effort to have you pay tribute to me through your god given abilities--is deception no matter how you slice it.



RPT, if you cannot see this--I am sure you can feel it every April 15th--when you are paying for a debt that will never be paid. And you know that this debt is ficitous but the powers that be still take your property. Will you be sick and tired then? Will you turn to UCC redemption or to the law? By the way, April 15th is the day christ rose from the dead. Fitting isn't it.



Would you like it if one day no one on this earth accepted FRNs? What would you do? You would govern yourself. YOu'd be free. You would not be lost. Your dependency would be broken and you would become the true owner of your property without interference. You would be able to protect yourself without reprisal.



Does it make sense to fear bearing arms? If you did nothing wrong what would you have to fear? Who is the one that actually fears you bearing arms? I am not afraid of it. For I have not committed crimes against you. I have not lied to you, stolen from you, deceived you, abused you, attacked you----I have no quarrel with your rights. So who do you think would be scared? Your slavemaster--that's who.



Sorry for the rant but, there is no room for pessimism--only action. If you are not prepared or preparing--then excuse me, I have some ass to kick in the courtroom and through the notary so that others may lead, follow or get out of the way. You are welcome to join the lawful ass whooping my attackers deserve. ;-)