a trust and UCC

#1 10-14-2003, 12:16 PM

The trustee of the trust I manage wants to file a UCC.He tells me it'll protect the trust if any claims are made against it.

Is there any risk/advantage for this to be done?

Ice · #2 10-14-2003, 12:23 PM

It would not hurt ... but you better be sure of what is actually filed... make sure the assets of the trust are not endangered by allowing a claim against it by any man.

I don't use a trust... I don't find it necessary to have a trust in order to avoid the illegal&actions of the&IRS.& There are other and better ways to deal with the IRS.& If you will take advantage of the resources available at this site you&will learn&of&the tactics I am referring to.

suijuris · #3 10-14-2003, 12:55 PM

<FONT face="courier new, courier, mono">Ice,
I agree that we are learning better ways to deal with the IRS than trusts, but it may be simpler for someone who already has the proper trust setup to continue using it.</FONT>

<FONT face="Courier New">Mike,
I assume that the trustee intends to file a UCC against the trust, not himself. Just remember, if this action is taken, be sure the paperwork exists to show that a valid contract exists between the trust and a 3rd party NOT invloved with the trust in any way other than the contract which the trust defaulted on. </FONT>

#4 10-14-2003, 01:57 PM

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<FONT face="Courier New">Mike,
I assume that the trustee intends to file a UCC against the trust, not himself.</FONT>

<FONT face="Courier New">Sorry, guess I didn't make myself clear. The UCC would be against the trust.</FONT>

<FONT face="Courier New">&Just remember, if this action is taken, be sure the paperwork exists to show that a valid contract exists between the trust and a 3rd party NOT invloved with the trust in any way other than the contract which the trust defaulted on. </FONT></TD></TR>
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Not certain what you mean. The trustee is a 3rd party independent individual and the UCC would be filed against the trust by the trustee.

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suijuris · #5 10-14-2003, 02:39 PM

<FONT face="courier new, courier, mono">Not sure if the trustee filing the UCC against the trust would be the appropriate thing to do.</FONT>

<FONT face="Courier New">It would be better if a 3rd party, such as someone with a home maintenence business, entered into a 30 year contract for maintenence on the home and lawn. Then, in the even that the trust is in breach of the contract for some reason, the 3rd party can file a UCC against the trust, thus establishing a its interest in the trust and home.& </FONT>

<FONT face="Courier New">What reason would the trustee have to file a UCC against the trust? Seems like it would be a conflict of interest...</FONT>

#6 10-14-2003, 02:56 PM

As I understand it...

If a third party (like the IRS) wants to bust the trust and access it's assets - there would already be a secured party (the trustee).&

Maybe I'm just confused.....

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suijuris · #7 10-14-2003, 03:09 PM

You are correct, that is the reason for filing UCC against the trust. What I am getting at is that it needs to be bullet proof, so that if a court attacts the validity of the claim, it can be backed up as being 100% legit and the 3rd party questioning the validity of the claim can not discredit it. That is why I would not recommend that the trustee be the one to file a UCC against the trust.

I go back to my earlier question: What reason would the trustee have to be the one filing the UCC statement? Do you see what I am getting at? Why is he claiming to be the secured party of the trust?

suijuris · #8 10-14-2003, 03:13 PM

<FONT face="courier new, courier, mono">Futhermore, a trustee is responsible for managing the assets of the trust, but has no personal interest in the assets of the trust. If he claims to be secured party of the trust, he would be saying he holds interest in the assets of the trust. Would that not create a conflict of interest for him?

Hope I am making myself clear, I am kinda rusty on some of my trust issues. Anyone feel free to jump in and correct me if I am wrong.</FONT>

#9 10-14-2003, 07:25 PM

Greetings.

Who would be the debtor?&

Who would be the Creditor?

The trustee can/should protect the beneficiary's interest in the trust. You mentioned MANAGER, is this a business trust? What type of security agree ment exists to give consideration?

#10 11-18-2003, 03:38 PM

The "bullet proof" nature of a trust, or anything we engage in, is the knowledge of that with which we possess. Poor documentation/ ignorance aside.

I highly recommend filing UCC's on the trust. The relationship is Trustee= secured party; Trust= debtor. The creator is higher than the created...

I prefer operating out of trust for the purposes of separating my assets (property) from my liabilities (people after my property). This has proven to pay for itself in bucket-loads when bad behaving esquires go looking for things to attach, confiscate, and seize.

Do you need a trust??? No, not at all. However I prefer to have my property and resources available to fight the battle on my own terms rather than be forced into a fight to get my property and resources back while trying to overcome the decision that precipitated the action.

To me the best offense is a good defense...