What to do with a Commercial Lien?

[Rlynne]

After the 90 day seasoning (of UCC filing) what can I expect?

I was told hardly no one ever sees a penny from a commercial lien, no matter the reason. This person went on to say it's different for corporate institutions because they have means of converting a lien into funds, whereas a individual don't.

So I decided to surf the web for options. Below is what i found. Question, are these legal options?

1. Work out a deal with the persons (in this case a company) the lien is on.

2. You can deposit this lien in a bank as a Certificate of Deposit and get a whopping 4% annual interest rate. (The site I read this on was the only place I had ever read this). However the person that runs the site didn't go into details, he just direct people to some pay for service, which is fine.
http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%2...mmandments.htm

3. You could sell it for cash (at a discount) at anywhere from 25 - 90% of face value.


(How do you do this?)
4. Keep the lien and pay for products you want, such as vehicles or real estate, by filing a UCC-3 as a partial assignment of the lien until you have used it up.


5. You could initiate involuntary bankruptcy where you have a forced sale of the Respondent’s property. This is the exact procedure the banks use to take property from people and never set foot in the courtroom. This is basically how the IRS takes away property;

[Shoonra]

You don't say how the particular lien originated. If it's one of those nuisance liens that some people (including in this forum) suggest filing against IRS employees and judges to intimidate them, not only will it not produce a penny, but it cost you a great deal and not only in money.

I am not clear on why this is called a "commercial" lien; I am not familiar with that term although I have heard of a mechanic's lien, a garageman's lien, a materials lien, etc. In any case, a lien is an indication of a debt - unlike a promissory note it does not even contain evidence that the debtor wishes to pay - and my experience is that (apart from certain mortgage liens) it is hardly ever negotiable in real practice.

In fact, if the alleged debt somehow presupposes a court decision which does not yet exist, selling the lien amounts to selling a lawsuit, a very old offense called champerty, which is still on the books in most places.

Additionally, several states have adopted, in the last dozen years or so, laws intended to prevent or discourage the filing of bogus liens, especially against govt officials. There are simplified means of the target of the lien having it expunged, and there may well be penalties for filing such liens -- such as criminal charges that could include corruptly influence a public official, obstruction of justice, etc. -- and possible civil repercussions such as a lawsuit for slander of title.

[Rlynne]

You don't say how the particular lien originated. If it's one of those nuisance liens that some people (including in this forum) suggest filing against IRS employees and judges to intimidate them, not only will it not produce a penny, but it cost you a great deal and not only in money.]

You're correct I didn't mention the particulars, reason being I thought it better to get the point of posting. Well the lien I'm speaking of has nothing to do with the IRS, government officials, or judges.

In fact, if the alleged debt somehow presupposes a court decision which does not yet exist, selling the lien amounts to selling a lawsuit, a very old offense called champerty, which is still on the books in most places.

The lien inwhich I speak don't presupposes a court decision which does not yet exist.

Additionally, several states have adopted, in the last dozen years or so, laws intended to prevent or discourage the filing of bogus liens, especially against govt officials.

Yes I read something about that a few months back.

There are simplified means of the target of the lien having it expunged, and there may well be penalties for filing such liens -- such as criminal charges that could include corruptly influence a public official, obstruction of justice, etc. -- and possible civil repercussions such as a lawsuit for slander of title.

A commercial lien is different only the person who filed it can expunge it. Thank you for responding to my post.

[mikah2k]

Rlynne,
I have not seen anything that says any of the options is not legal.

All options require you find an "other" party who is willing to accept whatever it is you have to offer.

Number 1, if there is a change of heart in the "debtor" [only God knows the heart of man], this is viable option.

For Number 2, you will need to visit those institutions which accept commercial paper for deposit or exchange. At a bank, you might hear "we don't take those (commercial liens) because they (your commercial paper) involve risk, and our bank is a zero percent risk-taker." A bank vice president told me such (regarding another type of commercial paper), and suggested trying citicorp, general american, or some other places that take risks. Risk is in the "debtor" not "paying", or no potential buyer wanting to buy.

Number 3, is definitely a possibility. There exist companies who do viatical settlements, factoring and other such conversions of streams of payments into lump sums or vice versa. The idea is in the exchange, the "broker" of the deal subtracts his fee from the lump sum. Search the web for "factoring" (of payments), that should lead you to what you want.

Number 4 is straight forward. Your seller must be willing to accept as payment your assignment of partial interest for the goods/services you buy. Check with your state's secretary of state for forms, and where to file and fees for filing.

Number 5 is in the form if what is known as trustee's sales, foreclosure sales, sheriff's sales, or tax sales: such sale is usually an auction (public, or private if requested) and bids may be open or sealed. A trustee (sheriff can be trustee) being entrusted with authority, typically called a "power of sale", can dispose of the property without any "judicial intervention" due to terms of the contract or mortgage or deed of trust or security agreement. A book on procedure of foreclosing mortgages would be a valuable reference. Thomson west linked here has such books.

Incidentally, purported lenders use all these options. I've had purported creditors offer me substantial (75%) discounts for their paper due to (1)non-payment by the purported debtor and (2) being second in priority; first priority "claimant" was foreclosing.

If a "debtor" "pays", 2, 3, and 4 are viable.

If a "debtor" fails to "pay", eventually a prudent holder of the commercial paper will have to do Number 5 or else the paper will be worthless.

[artificialsteve]

thanks for that post.....