Flawed Redemption Process

[iamfreeru2]

I would like to chime in on this.

1. Yes, the Constitution, state laws and codes are man's laws. But those laws are derived from the public not the private. the UCC is derived from the private commercial rules of a handful of men to govern commerce. Our laws are based on past experiences through similar cases of people interacting with people that have had controversies settled through a third party by their consent in a public forum.

Since when is the UCC private? It is not more private that the IRS code is.

2. I have never seen the 10 Commandments in stone.

I have never seen it either, but does that mean it does not exist? It may not for you, but that does not mean it is not real. Don't give me this, if it is not truth to you then it is not truth crap either. It does not matter what I believe truth is still truth and is based on God's truth not mine.

4. According to my belief God did create Lucifer, but He also allowed free-will or this would not be so.

If you are referring to free will to choose God, show me in the Scriptures where this is so. We do not have the capacity to choose Him because we have a sin nature. Luke 18:19 says: "No one is good except God alone." John 15:16 says: "You did not choose Me, but I chose you."

But the clear fact still remains...even in the Bible, Jesus did not befriend money changers and they were not welcomed in His Father's house.

Jesus was never against the money changers themselves. He was against their actions. He has never been against the man or woman and loves all of His creation. It is the acts (sin) that we commit that He is against.

Are you saying that God has provided a remedy through the UCC even after Jesus did what he did and said what he said about money changers?

When it is used in the right way, yes. When use for His glory. Are you saying that it cannot be used for the glory of God. Romans 8:28 says: And we know that God causes all things work together for good to those who love God, to those that are called according to His purpose."

If so, then why are folks getting no where with this alleged remedy that is approved by God?

There are people that are getting remedy with the Redemption process using the UCC. You are speaking for yourself, but you cannot speak for me or anyone else.

Have you any success with this "remedy"?

I have had success with it. I am having success with now. Have I also had defeats with it? Yes, just like a lot of others on this site that are having defeats using Cornforth's methods and other court actions. I see people lose using the court system daily.

there are many testimonials here on this site that prove that the UCC redemption stuff does not work.

It has not worked for them, but that is not to say it has not worked for others.

iamfreeru2

[Jerseee]

Originally Posted by iamfreeru2

I would like to chime in on this.



Since when is the UCC private? It is not more private that the IRS code is.

Jersee: This is your lack of understanding showing. It governs commerce and did elected public officials create this doctrine for public use? Did they even create it at all?

I have never seen it either, but does that mean it does not exist? It may not for you, but that does not mean it is not real. Don't give me this, if it is not truth to you then it is not truth crap either. It does not matter what I believe truth is still truth and is based on God's truth not mine.

Jersee: you need to read the whole discussion first and secondly, I believe that you may have a problem with acceptance. You accept certain things and you reject certain things even when folks can forsee events due to past experience. No one never said they did not believe in the commandments.

If you are referring to free will to choose God, show me in the Scriptures where this is so. We do not have the capacity to choose Him because we have a sin nature. Luke 18:19 says: "No one is good except God alone." John 15:16 says: "You did not choose Me, but I chose you."

Jersee: No need to show anyone anything as I am living proof of free will just as you are living proof of free will bestowed upon you by the creator. I don't see what this has to do with UCC redemption.


Jesus was never against the money changers themselves. He was against their actions. He has never been against the man or woman and loves all of His creation. It is the acts (sin) that we commit that He is against.

Jersee: Well duh. This is what we are talking about--actions against people by other people.

When it is used in the right way, yes. When use for His glory. Are you saying that it cannot be used for the glory of God. Romans 8:28 says: And we know that God causes all things work together for good to those who love God, to those that are called according to His purpose."

Jersee: So when you failed using the redemption process--I guess you were using it the wrong way and for your glory only?

There are people that are getting remedy with the Redemption process using the UCC. You are speaking for yourself, but you cannot speak for me or anyone else.

Jersee: Your failures speak for you. I don't speak for you--I merely report the failures and lack of documented successes.


I have had success with it. I am having success with now. Have I also had defeats with it? Yes, just like a lot of others on this site that are having defeats using Cornforth's methods and other court actions. I see people lose using the court system daily.

Jersee: Good point.

It has not worked for them, but that is not to say it has not worked for others.

iamfreeru2

Jersee: time will tell.

Originally Posted by Jerseee

Obviously you have never served your country in a time of war. Bodies are being counted daily in Baghdad and I was there to see them tagged with numbers not names. They go into a steel suitcase and are shipped back to the states. People are forsaking their own currencies to have the dollar. You need poor people to have rich ones. Just as a farmer needs livestock to make a profit.

You are so correct. I have never served our country in a time of war..And neither have you. There has not been a declared state of war since the war with Germany and Japan. However, I do have a document called a dd214 that says that I did serve during that period known as the VietNam Campaign (Police action). People are also forsaking their own currenciess for the EuroDollar, so what is your point?

Originally Posted by Jerseee

Point made--you have your break. Read the whole declaration of Independence please.

I have read it numerous times.. must I read it again?

Originally Posted by Jerseee

When you are defending something without reason, what else am I left with? I'm not challenging faith or knowledge level---I'm challenging a process in which you are vigorously defending by way of scripture. Now if you are strictly talking religion--you have the wrong person and the wrong room.

When something is defended without reason, one is left with the condition that this nation was left in during the Korean Conflict, vietnam campaign, desert storm, and a sundry of other police actions. Obviously from your above statement, defending the right of others to have a choice is defending something without a reason. So much for the alleged actions involving our country interfering with the so-called rights of people of foreign countries. You have evidenced a pursuasion that is contradictory to such interference.

Originally Posted by Jerseee

Well I have to look up the definition of a newbie since there may be a definition for it. I am not putting you to words--I'm quoting you as you wished and I am responding to your posts. If you are not defending UCC redemption--then what in the world are you talking about? You may want to check the title of the thread before posting somewhere.

Please show my quotes, where what you have alleged that I said is in fact WHAT I SAID.

Originally Posted by Jerseee

people like to see results not hear about them. I attack redemption and their followers because it is a flawed system and it is dragging down unsuspecting folks. And of course some things have a cost associated with them--but knowingly pushing a flawed system and not providing help when it is needed is not good business or is it fair. Go to the success stories section and the downloads section for your proof. I have provided it already.

This whole country is a 'flawed system'.. why balk about one more aspect of its' acne condition. As for fair... didn't your folks ever instill in you during your upbringing that 'life ain't fair'. So What if something is not fair.. Show me a constitutional right to fairness.

Originally Posted by Jerseee

If your process is solid and verifiable--hell yeah....bring on the next redemptionist! I'll shut them down and expose them for who they are. You don't talk about successes--you show them as examples of how to do something and proof that it works. teachers do that all the time. If that intimidates them then so be it--I'm here to allow folks to have a fighting chance at personal freedom. If you want to learn--I can teach you what I know. And it will cost you nothing but your time--I never said that freedom was free. I meant the information was free.

I concur with you 100%... now show by evidence (scanned copies of actual court documents or other authoritative and traceable documents) where a win has been attributed to the processes that you advocate.

Originally Posted by Jerseee

Now who is putting words to whom?

"Originally Posted by Jerseee
This site is not tyranically operated. A public apology is not beneath me if I am wrong. But I know I am not. I have done my research well enough to know better. You are free to post your position on any matter and it does not have to be accepted by all but it is welcomed. There is nothing hypocritical about free speech. There is something hypocritical and dubious about a process that depends on your ability to pay and the Word of God. If it cannot stand on its own, you should question it. "

I am not putting words into anything... I have just quoted you above again for the readers to see for themselves... you stated and I will repeat it again "There is something hypocritical and dubious about a process that depends on your ability to pay and the Word of God." Those are YOUR words,, not mine.

Originally Posted by Jerseee

Show me where God approves of money changers then I will show where he doesn't. More loaded questions. Look Jerry, if your not defending UCC redmeption then what are you talking about? the title of the thread says it all. If you know that I am opposed to UCC stuff why are you discussing the minute things within the discussion? You are offering nothing but controversy and I am offering you a viable solution. You have added nothing but critical comments of my position and not constructive comments of UCC redemption. Are you for or against UCC redmeption? Maybe when this question is answered I can focus on the right thing since I am so presumptive. Please tell me that you support UCC redmeption so I can continue on the path I was on with you.

Likewise Jersee you have done nothing but criticize my position and criticize me for defending Iamfree's right to make a choice between the varying processes that are available. Am I for or against the redemption process??? Don't know... as yet, I have not completed my research on the subject. I will admit, that I am intrigued with the outlay of the program, but have not made a final decision.

Now speaking of Quotes. I have taken the opportunity to copy a few of your comments from previous posts on this thread. Each will be a direct quotation.

"I do not want to change or alter what you do or believe--but I do think you are being misled through your faith. Your love for the father is so great that you may think that seeking freedom through UCC is righteous--but the cold hard fact is--you are abiding by a horrible doctrine to seek salvation for yourself and others. A doctrine written by the money changers. And accepting those favors of the Prince, is accepting their salvation through their rules--not god's law. Shame on the Gurus for dooping the sheep to dance with wolves."

You have mentioned 'salvation' in the above, and have referenced "god's law" in the same statement. You are here making a comparison of the redemption process with the salvation offered by Jesus the Christ. Are you insane? There is no comparison. The redemption process, at most, will only aid a man or woman in liquidating debts. The Salvation of and through Jesus Christ is beyond earthly measure. I might also add, that Salvation does not come through God's Law. Salvation is through the grace of God. It is a gift. No-one is indebted as a result.. we can not purchase salvation... we can not perform any degree of work that will qualify as a payment in full... in other words, we cannot earn Salvation. Poor analogy.

"Let's not talk about what we do with law. I say this because it is the only doctrine that I speak of on this thread--I do not quote scripture and law at the same time. So let's stick to what this is really about--UCC redemption convoluted with god's law. It is an abomination. It is blasphemous to serve 2 gods. I do know this much."

This statement above plainly tells the truth of how unfocused your thoughts are. ON the one hand you say that "it" (the law) "is the only doctrine that I speak of on this thread--" What pray tell then are you doing, speaking of UCC and Gospel? You also declare that you "do not quote scripture and law at the same time." Now that I can concur with.. it is an impossibility..

It is also an abomination to mix Gods' Law with other forms of ManMade law. That too is blasphemous.

[iamfreeru2]

Jerseee.

Quote:
Jersee: "This is your lack of understanding showing. It governs commerce and did elected public officials create this doctrine for public use? Did they even create it at all?"

Whether it has been created by the legislature or not is irrelevant. It has been accepted by each state and their legislatures have enacted the UCC into it's statutes. It is public and NOT private and is used in the public daily.

Quote:
Jersee: "No need to show anyone anything as I am living proof of free will just as you are living proof of free will bestowed upon you by the creator. I don't see what this has to do with UCC redemption."

You brought up free will and all I asked is prove we have free will. Where is it mentioned in the Scriptures? What does my being alive have to do with free will?

Quote:
Jersee: "So when you failed using the redemption process--I guess you were using it the wrong way and for your glory only?"

What I am saying is that things do not always work the way we want them too. God sees the big picture and everything goes according to His plan, not ours. Just becasue we do not have success the way the world determines success does not mean we were not successful. I do not know the mind of God or the ways of God. As long as my motives are correct and I follow Him, He can use anything for His glory. If I do not get exactly what I want the process may have helped someone else get what they need. Does that mean I am doing things for my glory? I may not have alll the pieces, but what I did have may have given someone else enough to prevail. Remember God uses all things for good, Romans 8:28. If that be true He can use the UCC for His glory. Again I will ask you, do you deny this?

Quote:
Jersee: "Your failures speak for you. I don't speak for you--I merely report the failures and lack of documented successes."

Are my failures really failures. Do you know this to be true? If I did not get remedy does not make it a failure. As I said it may have helped someone else get the remedy they needed. Lack of documentation does not mean failure. I am working with a Discover Card alleged debt. Just because I have not completed the process yet and have not gotten the letter telling me the alleged debt is satisfied; does that make it a failure? I think not. So far what I have done has stopped them in their tracks. I do not know about you, but I call that a success.

My wife and I are still in our home. Is it a failure because the court ruled against us regarding the BoE? It is a setback, but I would not call it a failure. You see I look at this as a success. Any learning experience is a success to me. We are learning in the process and are growing as a result. YHWH is on His throne and in control and ultimately He will receive the glory. The jar is half full not half empty.

iamfreeru2

[weishaupt1776]

I had the pleasure of visiting imfree at his humble abode a few weeks ago. Cozy Place.

[iamfreeru2]

Jerseee,

I apologize to you regarding the quote below that I responded to incorrectly. You are correct in that I did not read all the posts. I was going by your past posts regarding truth and I do aplogize. My bad. I realize now that you were merely quoting Jerry.

Quote:
"2. I have never seen the 10 Commandments in stone."

iamfreeru2

Originally Posted by iamfreeru2

Jerseee,

I apologize to you regarding the quote below that I responded to incorrectly. You are correct in that I did not read all the posts. I was going by your past posts regarding truth and I do aplogize. My bad. I realize now that you were merely quoting Jerry.

Quote:
"2. I have never seen the 10 Commandments in stone."

iamfreeru2

Jersee was not quoting me.. it was Jersee making the statement in response to my question.

Jerry.

[Jerseee]

iamfree,

good luck in your journey.

Jerry,

god speed to you. I offfer my assistance anytime you need it. I understand you are still learning (through your own admission of being a newbie--that is not an assumption, that is what you said.)

Weis,

I believe you. This is nothing personal. Iamfree knows good and well how I feel about UCC redmeption. He knows that we do not agree on this and he also knows that we agree on other things as well. This has to do with the mixing of religion with UCC redemption and promoting it that way to unsuspecting folks. Bruh, I really feel that these "Gurus" are taking advantage of people through the Word. This is one thing that I do not like about redemption. And I will state my position and not ride the fence like Jerry is doing.

All,

My position is this. I am against UCC redemption because it mixes religion with code and markets it that way. Jerry seems to be under the impression that I am denying a choice. this is far from true. Some folks on this board have asked me questions about UCC stuff and I reluctantly answered and guided them to certain individuals for more answers.

Now that I am allegedly "contradicting" my position all over this thread, I thought I'd make myself clear. However, Jerry seems to be against my position because of my thoughts on religion and redemption. Moreover, he has offered nothing but controversy.

He has offered no solutions, no strategies, and more importantly--he does not even want to choose a position. He just wants to defend Iamfree over something that Iamfree needs no defense of.

Iamfree has at least done some study in the area of UCC redemption and I have referred a few members to Iamfree. Although this thread is old, Iamfree still does what he does and my thoughts on the matter has not changed his mind or how he operates. So why does he need any defense? He has stated that he has had some success and he even offers his knowledge to members with UCC questions.

What has Jerry offered? Offered a unneccesary defense of a member who need not be defended. Iamfree has even offered some documented proof at one time. Iamfree has chosen a side to use and we had a very lively discussion on this issue if you read older posts.

Jerry offer a creative solution. bring something to the table other than meaningless banter about alleged contradictions and the nuance of scripture. How about you streamline a process or find a code or law that may help someone get results.

Now if that intimidates you, I am offerring a one on one virtual session to show you how to think creatively and within the system and try to gain some results. You have admitted that you are a newbie. You have even defined "newbie" (although I can't find it in a dictionary). Since you are a newbie and willing to learn. I can assist you in a way of thinking and critical reading.

This may not be the right time to offer such a thing to you since you are obviously somewhat biased to my position. But I offer it nonetheless. People have been critical of me and I of them but, it never stopped progess. this is evident between myself and Iamfree. Our ideologies may differ but he still offers assistance and guidance to members with situations that they want results on.

I offer you the same but it will not be UCC based. I may make reference of some UCC codes because it may deal in commerce.

Jersee:

I apologize for having introduced to this forum what you have termed to be "meaningless banter". Coming from one that cannot find the definition of the term "newbie" within a dictionary, your comment bears little importance to me, and I respond only as a matter of protocol.


Jersee stated:
"What has Jerry offered? Offered a unneccesary defense of a member who need not be defended. Iamfree has even offered some documented proof at one time. Iamfree has chosen a side to use and we had a very lively discussion on this issue if you read older posts.

Jerry offer a creative solution. bring something to the table other than meaningless banter about alleged contradictions and the nuance of scripture. How about you streamline a process or find a code or law that may help someone get results.

Now if that intimidates you, I am offerring a one on one virtual session to show you how to think creatively and within the system and try to gain some results. You have admitted that you are a newbie. You have even defined "newbie" (although I can't find it in a dictionary). Since you are a newbie and willing to learn. I can assist you in a way of thinking and critical reading.

This may not be the right time to offer such a thing to you since you are obviously somewhat biased to my position. But I offer it nonetheless. People have been critical of me and I of them but, it never stopped progess. this is evident between myself and Iamfree. Our ideologies may differ but he still offers assistance and guidance to members with situations that they want results on."

Because you were not able to find the meaning of the term "newbie", I hereby offer that definition (from a dictionary) and include its' source so that you may, in the future, be able to find such mysterious terms.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/

(Pronunciation Key)new·bie Listen: [ nb, ny- ]
n. Slang

One that is new to something, especially a novice at using computer technology or the Internet.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[From new (with b as in freebie).]



This is exactly the point that I was making. Throughout this dialogue, you have consistently attempted to misconstrue and misquote what others have said, twisting their words and taking issues out of context so that you might reenforce your biased position.

As to matters that I have contributed to the forum. You might want to consider the land patent issue. I have provided answers, to questions or concerns of others that were posted, that are suported by LAW and or CODE. No-one has even attempted to counter those answers that I provided, even at the request that I made, asking and pleading that someone would please offer an alternative view.

Yes Jersee, I am a newbie to this Forum (by virtue of the number of posts contributed by me) and to this subject (eliminating debt) at issue, but am in no way a newbie to the concept of being able to provide adequate answers to questions pertaining to the Law on particular subjects.

Have a nice day.

[iamfreeru2]

Jerry,

Quote from Jerry:
"What about the ten Commandments? Has anyone seen the tablets of stone?"

Jerseee did not directly answer this question. I thought he was the one that originally posted it. That is what I apologized to him for, my mistake that he did when in fact he did not. That is why I responded with my answer the way I did. Sorry for the confusion. Again it was my bad and I should have been more astute.

iamfreeru2