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  #21  
Old 07-31-2004, 11:26 AM
bfree_1966 bfree_1966 is offline
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For those that would like to discuss Redemption methods

Ice,



I do not make private deals either. You still do not understand what is meant by private. I make deals with no one. I am holding them accountable for what they do. I agree with you that God can use His power in any situation including the courts to His glory. Why can't you believe He can use Redemption to His glory as well? Why can't you believe He has called me to do this. Each of us has a different calling. Why do you bash mine? You jump in everytime and tell people that Redemption is garbage and have no proof of that. The Default against BBCOA is no proof at all that Redemption dose not work. I have read it and see nothing that proves the claim made. I have had success with Redemption, but unless I show you in black and white you call me a liar. When you say I have no proof that is what you are saying. You do not know me and how is it you know that Redemption has not worked for me or any others? If you have proof that is one thing, but judging without proof is another.



We need to call a truce here. You make some valid points and so do I. All we have done is what the enemy wants. We need to work together in this and not against each other. This is getting way out of hand and needs to stop. Leave me and others to our methods and we will leave you to yours. It has been said that Redemptionists are welcome here, but I have not seen it so far. Either we are welcome or we are not and if we are quit charging us.



iamfreeru2
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  #22  
Old 07-31-2004, 11:31 AM
iamfreeru2 iamfreeru2 is offline
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Sorry,



I have another username that I setup for my wife and used it by mistake. The above post is for me.



iamfreeru2
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  #23  
Old 07-31-2004, 02:23 PM
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redpilltaker redpilltaker is offline
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For those that would like to discuss Redemption methods

Greetings to all,



Iamfreeru2,



I think I am understanding the misconception about the word "private" that is hanging up the anti-redemption crowd...it seems to be creating a mental picture of some closed doors meeting/negotiations in their minds....



Which, I understand how that would frustrate a mentality that wants to get his/her country back...I know I was very dissappointed when I first heard that ANY court filings/cases/decisions/records were EVER sealed...so much for "public" transparency and disclosure....oh, there goes that disclosure issue again....



If "public" vs. "private" is an issue....how about a hint?....let me take a stab at it....



if "public" means: of the government, in its "trustee" status/duties...(which does not necessarily mean "out in the open"(sealed records?!))



then "private" would mean: (insert answer here)....





P.S. I am glad that you didn't leave...and please check your email....





Thanks,



RPT
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  #24  
Old 07-31-2004, 04:02 PM
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Ice Ice is offline
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For those that would like to discuss Redemption methods

<font color=olive>Re: public and private....



Private: "Affecting or belonging to private individuals, as distinct from the public generally. Not official; not clothed with office."



Public (n): "The whole body politic, or the aggregate of the citizens of a state, district, or municipality. The inhabitants of a state, county, or community."



Public (adj): "Pertaining to a state, nation, or whole community; proceeding from, relating to, or affecting the whole body of people or an entire community."[/color]




Iamfree,



You still have not posted a win. What you have posted is: We did all this stuff and now they make a delay.

I hate to be the one to break it to you... but they'll be to see ya. You keep stating the claim that "it works"... but as of yet have offered no proof of such.



And the one point that everyone wants to ignore is that you cannot mix the admin process with judicial process.



Truce? I am not at war with you. But, I would like everyone to be protected from being ripped off $$, getting nothing in return... as some Members here can tell you about. I would like to see the so-called "experts" that market these processes STAND UP BEHIND THESE FOLKS AND MAKE IT WORK... OR REFUND EVERY DIME THESE PEOPLE HAVE SPENT. But that won't happen. Because they use a "disclaimer" and they are only "giving information". They won't assist if you use the info. If it isn't backed up with assistance then it isn't worth the investment.



And here is a real kicker for ya'll -- when those processes fail -- we'll still be here to assist with the proper procedure for the proper place.



I do have a question that might be worth looking into: Have you ever considered having a citizens jury adjudicate your Admin. remedy?? hmmm... that gets the ol' brain cells buzzing...



Ice
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  #25  
Old 07-31-2004, 05:39 PM
enslegis
 
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For those that would like to discuss Redemption methods

Herr Iceman:

(1)Thank you for your non-rebuttal.

(2)Thank you for your emotion.

(3)You have been profiled.

(4)Remote viewing will now begin.
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  #26  
Old 07-31-2004, 05:44 PM
iamfreeru2 iamfreeru2 is offline
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Ice,



No my foreclosure is not a win yet. As far as backing people up with assistance I do it all the time. I do not charge either. You sound as if I am in this to rip people off. You just can't stop making inferences can you. I care not about those that charge because I do not. Usually the disclaimer is that legal advice is not given. Are you authorized to give legal advice? If you are not an attorney you are not authorized and can only state you are sharing information. BIG DEAL!!!



I will explain again that the court is being used. I am using a fiduciary to investigate and enter evidence. I am staying in the private directing the fiduciary to do this. I guess it is just too hard for all you that "kick butt" to understand that you can use the system in this mannner. Things get done by doing things this way and many are using this method. If the court or the Plaintiff continue to persue this I say bring it on. Proof of claim the matter has not been settled and closed via our exemption. It cannot be done.



iamfreeru2





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  #27  
Old 07-31-2004, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enslegis
Herr Iceman:

(1)Thank you for your non-rebuttal.

(2)Thank you for your emotion.

(3)You have been profiled.

(4)Remote viewing will now begin.



There wasn't anything to rebut. Bad case law is easy to find... I haven't the time to read the entire case in order to determine whether or not the interpretation you promote is the actual decision. You still have not provided proof that any of it actually works... and you still have not provided proof that you can use "admin" process in a judicial setting. Nor have you offered any proof that working in the private will affect any change in the environment we now find ourselves to be in. AND MY CHALLENGE HAS GONE UNANSWERED. Thanks for YOUR NON-REBUTTAL! (To rebut would be to answer the challenge and we await the documented proof).



Iamfree,



You are not "marketing" these processes... you only "promote" them. Therefore, my comments could not have been directed at you. There was no inference. As far as "legal advice" goes... that isn't what they are providing if it is "private" process. It could be considered "commercial" advice... but not "legal".



Your situation is a wait and see. So, wait and see. This forum isn't going anywhere ... so keep us all informed.



But look, you know my position and I know yours. There is no reason to keep discussing it. This discussion takes time away from other matters that I could be attending to. I'm supposed to be "MIA" for awhile ... and it has come to the point that I will be "MIA" for a bit.



Ice
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  #28  
Old 07-31-2004, 06:19 PM
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redpilltaker redpilltaker is offline
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RE: public an private



Public (n): "The whole body politic, or the aggregate of the citizens of a state, district, or municipality. The inhabitants of a state, county, or community."



Public (adj): "Pertaining to a state, nation, or whole community; proceeding from, relating to, or affecting the whole body of people or an entire community."



both (n) and (adj): operative definition....the government...to further clarify, the government that practices/operates with jurisdiction, venue, and authority not to be found in the constitution...(pistol in the back pocket issue from a couple of weeks ago...)



Private: "Affecting or belonging to private individuals, as distinct from the public generally. Not official; not clothed with office."



Practical definition: The natural person stays out of the government's presumptions/assumptions(many of which were are based on OUR behavior while we were still asleep). The natural person interfaces through the government's legal fiction(that they created and they control and they hold title to), officials, or office holders ....



Looking at iamfreeru2's docs and listening to Jack's commentaries....the laws are still there, it seems the approach is to pull the strings of the legal fiction that shares your name...and make the public do a little dance themselves....while the natural person stands on his status, nature, and substance of his being....not to be confused with the government's legal creation...again, this may not FEEL like a frontal assault...but a box is a box, and if you put the public beings in a box and can close the lid, the goal is reached....(except for the hope of getting our country back, but that issue has been hashed through enough already... )



And, just to validate iamfreeru2's statement that he helps for free...he has been helpful and open during a few telephone calls(he is patient too, since I live on the opposite coast and work on 2nd shift!! LOL)



And thanks for the forum and thread, this ALL helps me get my head around this stuff....



RPT







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  #29  
Old 07-31-2004, 06:34 PM
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Ice Ice is offline
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RPT,



<font color=olive>operative definition....<u>the government</u>...to further clarify, the government that practices/operates with jurisdiction, venue, and authority not to be found in the constitution...(pistol in the back pocket issue from a couple of weeks ago...)[/color]



So, what you are saying is that the "inhabitants" operate with jurisdiction, venue and authority not to be found in the constitution??



In essence, you seem to agree that the "government" is the people... but then you claim the people operate outside of the Constitution.



How can that be?



Better yet, how can you assign this "operative definition" to the definition given with nothing to prove your operative definition? It is a fact that the people are the authority over the government... and therefore can be considered the government. If we are the government -- then how could the court be the "enemy"??



And please note my above statements in regards to those that "market" redemption as opposed to those that "promote" it.



Ice



You all take care now.
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  #30  
Old 08-01-2004, 12:37 AM
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Ice Ice is offline
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enslegis,



Below is a link to a rebuttal to some of the "Factoids" that have been posted all over the internet. You can't believe everything that you read. You must do the research.




THE WHOLE THING IS A PACK OF LIES.



Geesh, where do "they" keep coming up with this stuff?



That which is posted below in red was received via e-mail on the above date. Apparently, this message was designed to provide "very secret information" about a wide variety of sinister matters for the purpose of convincing the message's reader about the validity of certain legal positions. I can only comment about certain legal points raised in this message, and then not all of them because I am not going to waste a lot of time debunking this garbage. But this type of message is representative of what lots of people unfortunately believe.



<font color=red>3.) The U.S. Has not had a Treasury since 1921. (41 Stat. Ch.214 pg. 654)[/color]



This contention has been promoted by many who advocate UCC arguments. I provide here the above referenced pages from 41 Stat. ch. 214, which was an appropriations act for the federal government. These pages show that this act abolished some Treasury offices and also directed the deposit of government funds with various Federal Reserve Banks. I fail to detect how Treasury was abolished.



The truth is otherwise. The Department of the Treasury was created in September, 1789; see 1 Stat. 65. In 5 U.S.C. §101, Treasury is listed as an executive department. The establishment of Treasury is codified at 31 U.S.C. §301. We certainly have a federal Treasury today; see 31 U.S.C. §302.



Rather than being deceived by incorrect information like the above, if you wish to learn about the money issue, read this brief posted on this site, and you should also read Edwin Vieira's Pieces of Eight. Edwin is the foremost legal scholar regarding the money issue.



<font color=red>4.) The U.S. Treasury is now the IMF. (Presidential Documents Volume 29-No.4 pg. 113, 22 U.S.C. 285-288)[/color]



For the above proposition, the message's author cites some pages from Presidential Documents, which are not posted on the Net. However, the author does cite "22 U.S.C. 285", et seq., which sections are so posted; however, review of these laws shows this proposition to be without foundation. Here is 22 U.S.C. § 285:



The President is hereby authorized to accept membership for the United States in the Asian Development Bank (hereinafter referred to as the ''Bank'') provided for by the agreement establishing the Bank (hereinafter referred to as the ''agreement'') deposited in the archives of the United Nations.



Here is 22 U.S.C. § 286:



The President is hereby authorized to accept membership for the United States in the International Monetary Fund (hereinafter referred to as the ''Fund''), and in the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (hereinafter referred to as the ''Bank''), provided for by the Articles of Agreement of the Fund and the Articles of Agreement of the Bank as set forth in the Final Act of the United Nations Monetary and Financial Conference dated July 22, 1944, and deposited in the archives of the Department of State.



Both 22 U.S.C. §287 and 22 U.S.C. §288 are long and are not posted on this page but please follow the links to FindLaw. How does membership in the IMF make Treasury the IMF or any part of it?



<font color=red>6.) The FCC, CIA, FBI, NASA and all of the other alphabet gangs were never part of the United States government. Even though the "US Government" held shares of stock in the various Agencies. (U.S. V. Strang , 254 US 491, Lewis v. US, 680 F.2d, 1239)[/color]



The Federal Communications Commission was created by Congress via the law codified at 47 U.S.C. §151. For the CIA, see 50 U.S.C. §403. The creation of the FBI involves old matters which I merely cite. Via an act of May 22, 1908, 35 Stat. 235, a Bureau of Investigation was created. This agency was consolidated with the Bureau of Prohibition, Division of Investigation, in the Department of Justice via E.O. 6166 of June 10, 1933. This agency was later designated as the FBI by an act of March 22, 1935, 49 Stat. 77. See 28 U.S.C. §531. I live in Huntsville, Alabama, where NASA was started; see 42 U.S.C. §2472. Pull out the United States Government Manual and one may easily find references to various statutes for the creation of federal agencies.



The author of the message cites United States v. Strang, 254 U.S. 491 (1921), which was a case where the "United States Shipping Board caused the Fleet Corporation to be organized ( April 16, 1917) under laws of the District of Columbia with $50,000,000 capital stock, all owned by the United States..." This case does not stand for the proposition that any particular agency was not a part of the government. The case of Lewis v. United States, 680 F.2d 1239 (9th Cir. 1982) held that the Federal Reserve Banks were private corporations.



<font color=red>8.) There are no Judicial courts in America and there has not been since 1789. Judges do not enforce Statutes and Codes. Executive Administrators enforce Statutes and Codes. (FRC v. GE 281 US 464, Keller v. PE 261 US 428, 1 Stat. 138-178)[/color]



The case of Federal Radio Comm. v. General Electric Co., 281 U.S. 464 (1930), simply deals with administrative procedures of federal agencies, and concerns nothing about the creation of any courts. 1 Stat. 138 was simply an act to pay the debts of the United States.



<font color=red>9.) There have not been any Judges in America since 1789. There have just been Administrators. (FRC v. GE 281 US 464, Keller v. PE 261 US 428 1Stat. 138-178)[/color]



The reference to 1 Stat. 138, an act to pay debts of the United States, has nothing to do with judges.



Here in Alabama, our Alabama Constitution contains provisions regarding the establishment our courts, as does Alabama Code, Title 12. Federal courts are dealt with via 28 U.S.C.



<font color=red>14.) New York City is defined in the Federal Regulations as the United Nations. Rudolph Gulliani stated on C-Span that "New York City was the capital of the World" and he was correct. (20 CFR chapter 111, subpart B 422.103 ( (2) (2)[/color]



Perhaps the best indicator that the author of the message discussed here was taking illicit drugs is this part. The reference to 22 C.F.R. §422.103 for the amazing proposition that New York is the capital of the world is pure fabrication; this regulation concerns solely Social Security Numbers.



<font color=red>20.) The King of England financially backed both sides of the Revolutionary war. (Treaty at Versailles July 16, 1782, Treaty of Peace 8 Stat 80)[/color]



The contention that we are Brits is fully discussed here. The foreign country that loaned money to us during the Revolution was France, not the King of England.



<font color=red>22.) America is a British Colony. (THE UNITED STATES IS A CORPORATION, NOT A LAND MASS AND IT EXISTED BEFORE THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR AND THE BRITISH TROOPS DID NOT LEAVE UNTIL 1796.) Respublica v. Sweers 1 Dallas 43, Treaty of Commerce 8 Stat 116, The Society for Propagating the Gospel, &c. V. New Haven 8 Wheat 464, Treaty of Peace 8 Stat 80, IRS Publication 6209, Articles of Association October 20, 1774.)[/color]



Please read my article, "We Ain't Brits." You may also read the Articles of Association which are posted on the Net; those Articles do not support any contention other than at the time, we were on the eve of war with the King of England.



<font color=red>31.) " The People" does not include you and me. (Barron v. Mayor &City Council of Baltimore. 32 U.S. 243)[/color]



The case of Barron v. Baltimore dealt with the port at Baltimore and a "takings" issue. An attempt was made in this case to apply the 5th Amendment's "takings and just compensation clause" to the city.



<font color=red>32.) The United States Government was not founded upon Christianity. (Treaty of Tripoli 8 Stat 154.)[/color]



The above is not what the United States Supreme Court stated in Holy Trinity v. United States, 143 U.S. 457 (1892): "and for this plain reason that the case assumes that we are a Christian people, and the morality of the country is deeply ingrafted upon Christianity, and not upon the doctrines or worship of those impostors.' And in the famous case of Vidal v. Girard's Ex'rs, 2 How. 127, 198, this court, while sustaining the will of Mr. Girard, with its provisions for the creation of a college into which no minister should be permitted to enter, observed: 'it is also said, and truly, that the Christian religion is a part of the common law of Pennsylvania.'"



How about these various Presidential Proclamations and the frequent references to "Almighty God"? The below links are to various Proclamations published in the United States Statutes at Large which are posted on the Net. Some of these are several pages long, so please remember to hit "next image" to flip the pages of the Stats when reading some of these proclamations.





11 Stat. 754 11 Stat. 756 11 Stat. 763 12 Stat. 1261



12 Stat. 1263 12 Stat. 1270 13 Stat. 733 13 Stat. 735



13 Stat. 743 13 Stat. 749 13 Stat. 755 13 Stat. 773



14 Stat. 817 15 Stat. 701 15 Stat. 711 16 Stat. 1129



16 Stat. 1137



You can click here to use the links for some of the above Statutes and case cites. Check out this rebuttal, click the links to the documents discussed, read them and decide for yourself if they actually state what the "Factoid" writer claims they do.



It's my pleasure to be able to assist in this matter.



Ice
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