All Capital Spellings

[fulltitle]

Without Prejudice.
Lucy...I tell u sun'thing.

Titles, Headings or Captions. The titles, headings or captions in the sections or paragraphs of this Agreement are inserted for convenience of reference only and shall not constitute a part of this Agreement.

[fulltitle]

Without Prejudice

Originally Posted by David Merrill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorial dissent
Clarkee, the reason your name appears in different formats on the mail you depends on two things, where they got it to begin with, a lot of the mailing list providers only provide in upper case, and how their computer is programmed.

Perhaps programmed deliberately as most programs are?

Early computers didn't like upper and lower case letters, ...

Proof?

...and it was easier ...

...less trouble for machines?

to use one, upper cace font on the printers of the time and they chose upper case as the most readable.

error and or lie...its clear that all uppercase text is not easy to read by most people tested.

also easier to read for the charactor readers of the time.

Ah that might be true..for that time. But OCR A/B fonts are in both upper and lower case.

It is an old habit that has continued even in the age of laser printers. It is simply easier to read and cuts down on the processing time.

A lot of data entry is done with no caps and then is converted to all caps as it goes into the database,

Not true. Its done in mixed case and then clarified. Typist are trained to type 'normal' (i.e. mixed case) not a lazy all lower or all uper.

...just a quicker way to do it is all it is. Otherwise, it is just habit and laziness. Your name is still the same whether is it spelled in all caps or all small letters, or some combination in between.

If its not your name its not your name. Plain and simple. You decide perhaps?

There is no law that recognizes one version over another. Custom is one thing, but the law recognizes no difference.

Titles and headings....

Anymore than there is a law that says how you have to pronounce your name.

So if you decided "one dollar" was pronounced as "five hundred dollars" meant $1 you could give a judge $1 and he would be happy?

The hogwash just gets smellier and smellier...

Without inciting or inflaming it doesnt just smack of hogwash it smacks of oughtright lies.

[Notorial dissent]

Merrill, so nice of you to add your two cents worth, considering that is all it is worth.

A good portion of the software in use today is as much as 40-50 years old, and was written when computers in general and printers in particular only dealt in upper case characters. Rather than update old code as systems and technologies changed many businesses chose to leave what worked alone and only update as far as systems were concerned. In a sense they were intentionally programmed for upper case since that was all that was available, and the convention continued into modern times.

As to proof, I suggest you look up Hollerith, one of the three people who are responsible for modern data processing and yet never saw a computer. He never contemplated anything more than upper case in his work. All modern data processing is based upon Hollerith for input and the early teletype machines for output.

“less trouble for machines?” Who else did you think they did it for?

“error and or lie...its clear that all uppercase text is not easy to read by most people tested” Sorry to break it to you, but the early printers only worked in upper case, just as did the early teletype machines. FYI, the first program I ever wrote was on a tape punch teletype, and the first programs I actually ran came off an IBM printer that only had upper case characters on it.

“Ah that might be true..for that time. But OCR A/B fonts are in both upper and lower case.” True, but that doesn’t change convention and how the software was written or when.

“Not true. Its done in mixed case and then clarified. Typist are trained to type 'normal' (i.e. mixed case) not a lazy all lower or all uper.” To quote you, NOT TRUE. Most of the data processing equipment I have worked on had no upper / lower case function. You sat and keyed the information as it came to you and there was no discrimination of case.

Your name is a string of characters. The law does not recognize the difference between uppercase or lowercase. If you know of such then please post it, otherwise give it up. The law recognizes that people have first and last names, but there is no cognizance of capitalization. That is merely convention.

“So if you decided "one dollar" was pronounced as "five hundred dollars" meant $1 you could give a judge $1 and he would be happy?” Not at all what I said, and you know it.

“Without inciting or inflaming it doesnt just smack of hogwash it smacks of oughtright lies.” No, just your lack of contact with reality. If you can find a law or a legal decision that says a name must be upper and lower case then please do so, otherwise the legal decisions that contradict you will have to stand.

[Shoonra]

Originally Posted by SaveUncleSam

So if I say that I am John Paul Doe to the courts or police that puts me in a bad position but if I say that I am John Paul, this is better?
I will research this more...

When the police or courts ask for "your name" they intend your full name, positively including your surname - altho they might be rather flexible about your given (Christian) name (flexible in that they more likely want the name on your DL rather than your first and all middle names as given at your Christening).

Responding with something that omits your surname would probably be viewed as a less-than-honest answer and cause a deteroriation in the immediate situation.

The history of the use (and law) of names is extensive and (for some people) interesting, as it has changed over the centuries, and it cannot be adequately conveyed by a few sentences in a law dictionary.

[David Merrill]

Originally Posted by SaveUncleSam

I recently took a look at my passport. Sure enough David IT even distinguishes the given name from the surname. It reads as follows:

Surname
DOE
Given Names
JOHN PAUL

That right there tells me your research into the matter is correct. So if I say that I am John Paul Doe to the courts or police that puts me in a bad position but if I say that I am John Paul, this is better?
I will research this more...

It is amusing how many times you can read it right there in the definitions and the parts that do not click into place remain misunderstood. Parts kept me curious though and I kept trying to understand the quotation marks around "name" in the explanation.

David, I am curious, did the person send that letter along with the "payment coupon"? When one pays the amount due and returns the coupon, is the company paid twice? Sort of like a remittance for auto excise taxes for example?

The bill actually said "coupon" on it. I shredded the fax of it after finishing the commission. I regret that now and maybe I can replace it. I figured he was just asking for a big billing war and that the attorneys at Chase would never just discharge like they were afraid of being caught in the fraud they do every day.

In other words, the Statement is a trap. It would be soooo easy to fall into the idea that he can ring up $15K/month and continue to discharge the funds. That must be what the attorneys are hoping for. So I told him he had best destroy the Card now, before he is tempted by hard times to try that. Read the last paragraph of the authorization letter carefully. The discharge is completely dependent on good faith and that will only happen one time. He openly admits to having been fooled into the sham; so he cannot expect a repeat performance even though they are looking like they want him to continue business with them. He cannot keep putting his credit up as collateral for loans to buy things.



Regards,

David Merrill.


P.S. I am going to blend Shoonra and Notarial dissent together philosophy-wise for convenience; that machines can just keep what they are used to like we are slaves of the machine instead of the other way around - that because old computers and teletypes were all upper case the courts adhere to this inaccuracy from yesteryear (rediculous by the way).

Originally Posted by Shoonra

When the police or courts ask for "your name" they intend your full name, positively including your surname - altho they might be rather flexible about your given (Christian) name (flexible in that they more likely want the name on your DL rather than your first and all middle names as given at your Christening).

That is the fatal assumption. I have presented a Certificate of Search with David Merrill on it to police. They keep persisting for a DOB which I do not have. I tell them things like I do not have that information and that a man cannot be compelled to incriminate himself. See Information in old law dictionaries. It is what goes before grand juries for consideration - usually indictment.

Defeating conditioning is very difficult but that is all Shoonra is doing - enforcing conditioning. See next red comment.

Responding with something that omits your surname would probably be viewed as a less-than-honest answer and cause a deteroriation in the immediate situation.

Does that make it less than honest to tell the officer your name? I have seen men ejected from the jail for pressing this issue to the point where the Sheriff/jailer is compelled to Criminal Impersonation charges. Imagine a crowded jail with someone like me teaching others not to answer unless they get your name correct. Or even correcting them every time they shout for you by surname only. In an overcrowded jail, the guards get nervous around the truth. They start losing sleep and show up groggy and the rested inmates start pressing buttons...

Furthermore the bankruptcy of the US is evidenced in the full name. That is the cooperation of being Government bonds as designated by FDR in 1933. The Supreme Court has ruled that through the private credit and private law of the Federal Reserve system having a Social Security Number subjects a man to the irrecusable obligation of filing a Return of Income and the entire IR Code. One needs the birth certificate to get a SSN. And one needs one or both of those to get Government-issued ID.

If I was to walk around at Agilent (HP), even eating in the cafeteria, I would be expected to be wearing an Agilent-issued ID card from my shirt pocket or belt. Police and courts expecting Government-issued ID is only expecting that you identify yourself to be a citizen of the US = federal employee. That is the fundamental difference between state citizens and US citizens.

The history of the use (and law) of names is extensive and (for some people) interesting, as it has changed over the centuries, and it cannot be adequately conveyed by a few sentences in a law dictionary.

Yes it can. Only evidence of a social compact like the full name forms the case against you. I have seen the police return my Certificate of Search within the fifteen minutes I notify them and walk away.

They have a right to identify suspicious people. Not a right to misidentify them/us.

Thanks again for notarial dissent joining here. You and Shoonra are delightful! Again, I am hoping you will try telling us (on the proper thread) how we do not have a right or entitlement to redeem Federal Reserve Bank notes like you did over on Quatloos.


Regards,

David Merrill.



P.P.S. It is noteworthy how many months it took to get Shoonra to admit there is a distinction between the given or Christian name and family or surname. I guess that Judge Roy Bean and all will quit calling me Van Pelt now? Too bad! Wserra on Quatloos just called me so...

It [The Warrant: http://www.ecclesia.org/forum/images...s/Warrant1.gif
http://www.ecclesia.org/forum/images...s/Warrant2.gif ]
was on my desk within forty minutes and before I had even met the victim.

You are incorrect about two things wserra; 1) my ability to find things and 2) what FILED UNDER SEAL really means. Or would you like to explain what FILED UNDER SEAL really means according to a New York attorney? Does it really mean,

Is that really what FILED UNDER SEAL means?? I guess of the hundreds of Readers here, only a handful are wondering what makes me keep coming back to speak with you all. I knew from the moment I read Quatloos has a team of attorneys ready to debunk scams and myths I had found a treasure trove!




Regards,

David Merrill.


P.S. Unless of course you actually mean what you said:

What is obvious on the face of the warrant is that the warrant was to remain secret but the notifications were to take place through the newspapers wherever funds were seized in the next few weeks. People who had their funds stolen were expected to sit still and read the papers for instructions on how to get their money back.

[clarkee]

Originally Posted by Notorial dissent

Clarkee, the reason your name appears in different formats on the mail you depends on two things, where they got it to begin with, a lot of the mailing list providers only provide in upper case, and how their computer is programmed. Early computers didn't like upper and lower case letters, and it was easier to use one, upper cace font on the printers of the time and they chose upper case as the most readable, also easier to read for the charactor readers of the time. It is an old habit that has continued even in the age of laser printers. It is simply easier to read and cuts down on the processing time. A lot of data entry is done with no caps and then is converted to all caps as it goes into the database, just a quicker way to do it is all it is. Otherwise, it is just habit and laziness. Your name is still the same whether is it spelled in all caps or all small letters, or some combination in between. There is no law that recognizes one version over another. Custom is one thing, but the law recognizes no difference. Anymore than there is a law that says how you have to pronounce your name.

Nice try, but I don't buy it. Maybe the courts don't really care one way or the other. Why are your personal checks from banks all in CAPS and not the rest of the info, city, address. I'm sorry but I believe in the "fictitious name"definition in Blacks 8th ed. 1. ASSUMED NAME 2. ALIAS 3. JOHN DOE
Next to "legal name" it reads: A person's full name as recognized in law. A legal name is usu. acquired at birth or through a court order. I've never seen my recorded birth certificate only a certified copy so I don't know what or how it's written. Why would fictitious name's, all in CAPS appear only on what companies say I owe? There's got to be something to it because it's even in the Law Dictionary.

[SaveUncleSam]

Originally Posted by clarkee

Nice try, but I don't buy it. Maybe the courts don't really care one way or the other. Why are your personal checks from banks all in CAPS and not the rest of the info, city, address. I'm sorry but I believe in the "fictitious name"definition in Blacks 8th ed. 1. ASSUMED NAME 2. ALIAS 3. JOHN DOE
Next to "legal name" it reads: A person's full name as recognized in law. A legal name is usu. acquired at birth or through a court order. I've never seen my recorded birth certificate only a certified copy so I don't know what or how it's written. Why would fictitious name's, all in CAPS appear only on what companies say I owe? There's got to be something to it because it's even in the Law Dictionary.

I agree! Whenever I receive a "statement" from credit card companies, my name is in ALL CAPS. When I receive a letter informing me of an offer or other advertisement, my name is not in all caps. The same is true for my city. When I receive a tax bill, my name is in all caps. When I receive a letter requesting information or a personal letter, my name is not in all caps.
This business of "the computers of the 21st century are still as archaeic as those of the 1940s" is a load of bull. This reaks of those who claim kerosene and paper brought down the towers. You COINTELPRO people are amazing. Treasonous too.

[Notorial dissent]

Clarkee, I don’t care much what you do or don’t buy.

Your checks come out the way they were ordered. My check printer will do them any way I request, obviously who ever set yours up did it with the name in caps. Next time specify you want upper and lower case, or else get a different check printer.

I personally don’t care if you believe the moon is made of green cheese, it doesn’t change the fact that it ISN’T. Black’s is a general legal reference, it however has no legal standing whatsoever.

There is a very simple reason you have never seen your recorded birth certificate, there is not such thing unless someone has taken a birth certificate and recorded it at the recorder’s office for some reason. There is a certificate or affidavit of live birth depending on your locality that is filled out by either the delivering doctor or the mother or some person witnessing the event, which is then submitted to the local registrar of vital statistics or whoever the law directs, where the information is recorded into the birth record books. That is the record. A birth certificate is exactly that, a certified copy of the information on file with the registrar of vital statistics. That is why it is called a certificate. The actual information filed may be totally handwritten, it may be typed, or a mixture of the two and generally has all the information listed on the “certificate”. Some states have all the information in a computer database and it all comes out printed, others use a photocopy of the original return, also will depend a great deal upon when it was filed, pre or post computerization. My mother’s was on a preprinted form that had some typing and some handwritten information, and three attempts before the information was entered correctly, mine is on a preprinted form, all typed, and barely legible, and the certificate copies come out photocopied on a security paper background with the registrar’s seal on the bottom. I have seen any number of variations, and they all do the same thing, they are a certified copy of the record held by some registrar, nothing more and nothing less, and if you are willing to pay the price, you can have as many copies as you like.

So, in the final analysis, big whoop.

SUS
Most billing software is designed to print names and addresses in caps partly to make it easier for the digital sorting equipment to read, and mostly because that is the way they have always done it, and it is easier to leave things as they are than to reprogram.

The billing and advertising mailings come from two different sources, and probably two different databases. Advertising mailings will generally be done in upper and lower case, one because it requires different software to generate, particularly the smarmy letter variety, otherwise known as mail merge, and because it looks more consumer friendly. They are trying to get you to do something as opposed to just sending you a bill.

Your knowledge of modern business practices are woefully lacking it seems. I consulted with a major and relatively new brokerage firm as recently as 2000, you remember Y2K???? Their software was written in COBOL, and was at that point was at least 20 if not 30 years old. So don’t tell me they don’t do it that way. I worked with a bank in the 80's, whose entire system was in effect the same one they had started with back in the 50's when everything was done on punch cards and was again written in COBOL. The had a staff of close to 20 COBOL programmers that did nothing but keep it running. Most financial software until fairly recently was written in COBOL and maintained as such, and COBOL was not friendly towards either changes or updates. The printers we had at the bank were giant large carriage printers that printed a row at a time, and were incapable of printing lower case anything. Advertising and the like was handled outside of the bank by entirely different processes.

It takes entirely different technology and equipment to handle processing on a large scale than it does for a small business. If you check with most businesses of any size, like your local bank, you will find that much of their bulk technology is quite elderly in comparison to what a newer smaller business is using, unless they have just recently updated. The rest of your remarks are gibberish. “COINTELPRO” new one on me.

[David Merrill]

Don't let Notorial Dissent distract the issue to be upper case lettering. You are going to have the legal name converted to all upper case or not according to whether the court you have standing in decides to print it out. It is the legal or full name that gives you the standing. Some clerks will bother with your requests and conventions and other clerks will not be bothered with them.

Shoonra and Notorial Dissent are struggling to keep the Reader from seeing the real issue here... the distinction between the given or Christian name(s) [First and Middle typically] and the family or surname as a suffix forming the legal or full name.

Notorial Dissent should rename his handle to Red Herring if this keeps up.



Regards,

David Merrill.

[Notorial dissent]

Poor Merrill, wouldn’t know what to do with a clue if someone handed him one.

I somehow don’t remember saying anything about there not being a distinction between given, last or full names. (Not that that was the topic of discussion to begin with.) I was merely commenting on the whys of how they are produced in the business world. Sorry cupcake, never said any such thing. I certainly recognize the difference, and every business I have ever dealt with certainly has, otherwise I wouldn’t have had to spend so much time working on databases.